what went wrong?

[dewil]

I recently got my dyes from caswell and was very eager to try the "orange 3a" since im trying to replicate the orange powerparts KTM have.

However the result wasn´t wha I hoped for. The color was not very "full", more like a yellowish tint.

And when I was sealing it, more or less all of the color disappeared.

Please help me troubleshoot! Here are my calculations.

Suraface area of piece to be anodized: 21x3 cm= 63cm2 = 126cm2 (both sides). two equally large pieces = 252cm2

To convert 6 Asf to Ampere /square decimeter: 1 sq foot equals approx 30x30 cm. 1 sdm is 1/9 of a sqf ---> 6/9 = 0.66 A/ sqare decimeter

I was trying to use the lightbulb-way of controlling the power and have six slots and six 0.2A bulbs paralell connected, this gives me 1.2A (I coluld not find any bulbs with more amps but I will for next time). 1,2A / 2.52dm2 = 0.476 A /squaredecimeters = 4.28 Asf

I then used the 720 rule to get the time. I was going for 0.75 mil.
(720/4.28 )x 0.75 = 126 min

My electrolyte concentration is 1 part battery acid and three parts distilled water.
My PS is a carbattery charger Specs: Laddningsspänning: 12 V, laddningsström: max 9 A, laddningskapacitet: 10-120 Ah. Vikt: 1,9 kg. Mått: 160 x 95 x 220 mm.

I prepped the pieces, they passed the waterbreak-test, I start the PS and submerge the pieces into the electrolyte. The bulbs glow and I can see small bullbles on the anode and cathodes. I let it run the 126 minutes, take it out wash it with cold water and then put it in the dye.
One piece is roomtemp dye and the other in slightly warmed up dye. I let leave them in for 40 minutes since I dont think the color looks deep enough. I take them out and boil them in water and the color leaches out.

What can be wrong? I want them way "darker" and ofcourse that they keep the color sealed.

Please give me input! And just ask if I need to clarify anything.

[acidrain]

I'm not going to convert your cm to in, but one thing that jumps out is the cool temp dying... the dye has to be heated to 140F, or it's not going to work.

[dewil]

I'm not going to convert your cm to in, but one thing that jumps out is the cool temp dying... the dye has to be heated to 140F, or it's not going to work.

One of the dye-baths was warmed up, but I didn´t measure the temp. Anything else it might be? Is it harder, in general, to get brighter colors right? What about the PS? I know it´s not optimal, but will it work?

Epreciate the help!

[acidrain]

If you've measure the surfaces correctly (all sides?), and set your PS to the correct amps, and maintained a good connection all the way through the run, it should have worked.
Did you monitor and record the volts during the run? That is a good way to know if there was a problem (lost connection) during the run.
Another clue is the racking wires... if you used aluminum wires, did they anodize and dye correctly? If they did, and the part did not, that would indicate a lost connection.
Regardless, always heat your dyes to 140F for best results. GL... try again.

[dewil]

I dont think the calculations were off, and it was a pretty thin piece so I didn´t include the sides.
Im getting TI wire so I´ll se how that goes.
I haven´t invested in measuring- equipment so I don´t really know if the volts went up.
Seriously considering buying a cc/cv PS. 5A 20v should take me a little way down the road right?

How importaint is the Ph of the dye? Could that have interfered?

Thanx for all the help!

[Rapt]

Dewill,

140 F is pretty HOT. Its hot enough to scald you.

In Ontario Canada where I live the passed a law saying that hot water heaters had to be set to 120F or below to prevent scalding when installed.

I open mine up and set it to about 140F (this is almost the max setting) so the hottest water I get out of my tap is 140 or a little below. This water steams, its not just warmed up a little, its HOT.

Also since I suspect you use Celsius where you live,
140F is about 60C.

No experience dyeing parts, but I know temperatures.

[dewil]

Dewill,

140 F is pretty HOT. Its hot enough to scald you.

In Ontario Canada where I live the passed a law saying that hot water heaters had to be set to 120F or below to prevent scalding when installed.

I open mine up and set it to about 140F (this is almost the max setting) so the hottest water I get out of my tap is 140 or a little below. This water steams, its not just warmed up a little, its HOT.

Also since I suspect you use Celsius where you live,
140F is about 60C.

No experience dyeing parts, but I know temperatures.

thanks mate! Guess I need to increase the heat to see some action Ill give it a new try next weekend, by then I should have gotten my titanium wire and perhaps even my new PS... =)

[Tim Wiltse]

Dewil,

I assume your battery charger is a standard car battery charger putting out 12volts. I also assume it's a manual charger and not one of those automatic types. Things like temp even though it's a small thing really is a very big deal in anodizing. First your anodizing acid needs to be 70 degrees(F). It can be alittle higher and alittle lower but 70 degrees (F) is the norm. The cooler below 70 the longer you will need to anodizing and the warmer the shorter time is needed. Do not let your tank get above 80 degrees.
Now hopefully none of the others with flame on this but next ditch the light bulbs and connect straight up to your cathodes. The charger will set the amps itself. Not really knowing your power supply for now run one part at a time as it looks like you have about 50sq inches per part. Run your part for 60 minutes! Rinse the part but do not touch the part with your hands in any way. Don't let it bang against the sides of a metal sink etc. You have to have hot dye! Warm just won't cut it. A simple little cooking thermometer is cheap and you can not get away without knowing your temps!!!!!! Repeat you need to know your temps!!!!!! 140 degrees(F) is what the dyes call for. I keep most of my dyes around 130 to 140 degrees. To cold and it will take all day to get color if any at all depending on the dye color. To hot of dye and you will start to seal the part before it has taken all the color it can.
Going straight from the dye to BOILING water is just asking to have the dye leach out of your part! What you want is STEAM if you don't use nickle sealer. Hang the part over a boiling pot of water. Really get it boiling and hang it in the steam coming off the pot. GEt your part right in the middle of the steam cloud a couple of inches from the water. Let it steam for 20 or 30 minutes and then it should be safe to drop into the water if you want. When I first started and used water to seal I just hung parts in the steam and never really used the boiling water. It takes longer(maybe an hour) with steam but at least you don't lose the color. Remember do not touch the part till it's sealed or you will leave finger prints!
PH is important with the dyes but don't worry about that for now as long as your dyes are new which they sound like they are.
In the mean time get your hands on some scrap parts that you can run testing with. Get a know aluminum type as some types of aluminum can't be anodized i.e. alot of casting types. 6061 is great for a newbie!

LAter,
Tim

[dewil]

Dewil,

I assume your battery charger is a standard car battery charger putting out 12volts. I also assume it's a manual charger and not one of those automatic types. Things like temp even though it's a small thing really is a very big deal in anodizing. First your anodizing acid needs to be 70 degrees(F). It can be alittle higher and alittle lower but 70 degrees (F) is the norm. The cooler below 70 the longer you will need to anodizing and the warmer the shorter time is needed. Do not let your tank get above 80 degrees.
Now hopefully none of the others with flame on this but next ditch the light bulbs and connect straight up to your cathodes. The charger will set the amps itself. Not really knowing your power supply for now run one part at a time as it looks like you have about 50sq inches per part. Run your part for 60 minutes! Rinse the part but do not touch the part with your hands in any way. Don't let it bang against the sides of a metal sink etc. You have to have hot dye! Warm just won't cut it. A simple little cooking thermometer is cheap and you can not get away without knowing your temps!!!!!! Repeat you need to know your temps!!!!!! 140 degrees(F) is what the dyes call for. I keep most of my dyes around 130 to 140 degrees. To cold and it will take all day to get color if any at all depending on the dye color. To hot of dye and you will start to seal the part before it has taken all the color it can.
Going straight from the dye to BOILING water is just asking to have the dye leach out of your part! What you want is STEAM if you don't use nickle sealer. Hang the part over a boiling pot of water. Really get it boiling and hang it in the steam coming off the pot. GEt your part right in the middle of the steam cloud a couple of inches from the water. Let it steam for 20 or 30 minutes and then it should be safe to drop into the water if you want. When I first started and used water to seal I just hung parts in the steam and never really used the boiling water. It takes longer(maybe an hour) with steam but at least you don't lose the color. Remember do not touch the part till it's sealed or you will leave finger prints!
PH is important with the dyes but don't worry about that for now as long as your dyes are new which they sound like they are.
In the mean time get your hands on some scrap parts that you can run testing with. Get a know aluminum type as some types of aluminum can't be anodized i.e. alot of casting types. 6061 is great for a newbie!

LAter,
Tim

Hello Tim!
I have earlier done what you said and just used the charger without any bulbs and got descent results (with fabric dye). If I dont get it wrong, without any bulbs the bath draws as much current as is possible, depending on size etc. That current is considered to be a too high Asf, right? With bulbs or any other resistance you limit how much current can go through the bath, therefore getting the right ASF--> poresize for dying, right?

Isn´t that an inportaint issue?

Thanks for explaining the importance of right temperature in dying bath and anno-bath. I currently have my line in the garage and rightnow its very cold here in sweden, better find some way to turn the temperature up a bit. I´ll try the steaming procedure next time!
Thanx for your input mate!

[Tim Wiltse]

Dewil,

No the part will only draw the amps it needs! If your charger puts out a max of lets say 6 amps the part may only draw 2 or 3 amps as it anodizes. If will not go and draw the full 6 amps the charger can do. This is more or less the old method of anodizing before Caswell starting only doing tech support on the LCD method.
Yup temps are very importand. If your anodizing tank is 10 degrees colder than what it should be you will see a very large drop in the amount of amps it draws. The lower the amps the longer it will take to anodize to the same given layer thickness.

LAter,
Tim