Thin Copy Chrome plate

[Gently]

O.K. EVERYTHING is running great, I finally finished the pit removal from 3 bumper guards off of a 47 Buick...WOW that was fun.

Copper plated came out dull but very smooth so I polished them to a VERY bright finish.

Degreased them, and plated the first one 63 SI = 2 amps (actually 1.94) but since my meter is quite TINY I set it just south of 2.

Plated the part for 1 hour at 85 degrees using Stainless steel for the hangar, took the part out and it instantly went grey! WTF! No sweat just put it to the wheel using white polish and it cleaned up MAGNIFICENTLY I was estatic BUT WAIT, 2 places were the prettiest highly polished copper I ever seen! ****!!!

No worries though, degreased again, and into the FLASH Copper worked beautifully but again VERY dull polished and degreased and back into the Copy Chrome, same power BUT an hour and a half time again smooth as a babies rear end BUT again from shiny to LIGHT grey instantly! WTF is that all about Anyhoo again polished but used red rouge (says for softer metals) I will bet ya can't guess what happened......Yep right through to the copper!

NOW tommorow I intend to REDUCE power and plate for a week!!!! well actually 2 hours.

WHY CANT I MAKE IT COME OUT SHINY WITH NO BUFFING? help me...SOME ONE, PLEASE.

[KCV6]

Not being familiar with the size of the parts, it sounds like insufficient current throw? 63 SI is a fairly large piece for the size of the standard anode sheets. you may need a third anode. The surface area facing the part should always be larger than the part. I suspect even at the correct ASI the anode is no providing enough throw.

A cheats way of confirming correct ASI is to observe the voltage as well. It should be running at between 2.5Vdc and 3.0Vdc.

Did you plate a test piece first. I always check my tanks with a short piece of polished copper water pipe first in any new or freshly filtered and PH balanced tank just to ensure everything is working properly. If a small test piece is still dull, then I would check the PH.

Let us know how a small test piece goes first and I'm sure we can get down to the root of the problem.

Cheers... Mark

[Gently]

Yes I did a 7X2.25 inch piece of IRON that I had copper plated (test for all Flash, Acid and copy chrome...it came out beautiful, except it was a dull grey and polished up to a brilliant shine. I was concerned about anod length but it was on the top of the piece as well as the bottom it is about 11 inch long and about 1.5 inch varing to 4 inches wide see picture.

I still do not understand why the change of color when removed.

[Gently]

Okey Dokey, I think I figured out the thin plate....I think:

You CANNOT copy chrome and Acid Copper at the same time, only one piece at a time. I plated by itself (2 amps for 2 hours) and it came out fine, however when I Acid copper plated the second piece I decided to copy chrome a third piece while the second piece was in the Acid.....a big no no!
The meter jumped from 2 amps (for copy chrome) as soon as I connected it to 6 AMPS and of course I set it back to 2 amps. Results: Thin copy Chrome and Thin Copper plate. So now I know to use BOTH RECTIFIERS instead of just the big one. Problem of thin plate solved.....BUT I still cannot make the copy chrome come out bright and shiny right out of the bath.

I have tried high temp and low temp, I have tried high amps (FYI do not do this as it really streaks up the part with bad high places) and low amps. I have tried about everything I can think of but it just does not come out shiny.

I could really use some insight on this because I just got a contract to do the lettering on about 12 or 13 mack trucks including the bulldogs on the hood, and unless I can figure this out there will be a LOT of small hand polishing involved.

Any help will be GREATLY appreciated.

Mike.

[Gently]

Almost forgot here are the bumper guards before and after (1947 Buick rear bumper guards)

[woodjames]

Things to try...
1. Get rid of the stainless steel wire to hang your parts. It has INCREDIBLY high resistance. It's pretty much the same as nichrome wire. Use copper wire as hanging wire, and Copper pipe as a hanger bar.
2. Go with what KCV6 said about the volts. This is the way that I do it also.
3. I'm a little concerned that you can hook the piece up, and watch the amps change. I wish that statement said while I was plating in the Acid Copper at X amps and I submerged the 2nd piece in copy chrome the amps were at X. You need to have the power hooked up to your pieces before they touch the solution! I cannot stress this enough!!!

In all reality, you can run multiple tanks at one time. I used to do it all the time, however now I electroclean. The problem now is that when I electroclean, I run the piece in the cleaner at 6 volts. So if I had a piece in the tank at the same time and I run the volts up to 6 I burn the heck out of it.
Also, now I run the volts up to almost double as I'm putting the piece in the tank, and then quickly bring it down to where I need to be.

Are you maintaining your brighteners

Try those things on scrap. Follow back up. What are your volts reading? I know Mark suggested this before, but then you made no mention of it in your response. I'm telling you it works too.

A bright plate will show up almost immediately, so when working with scrap pieces, put them into your tanks for 5 minutes. I'm pretty sure those "bulldogs" are pot metal. You think you have problems now??

-Jimmy.

[Gently]

[QUOTE Things to try...
1. Get rid of the stainless steel wire to hang your parts. It has INCREDIBLY high resistance. It's pretty much the same as nichrome wire. Use copper wire as hanging wire, and Copper pipe as a hanger bar.
2. Go with what KCV6 said about the volts. This is the way that I do it also.
3. I'm a little concerned that you can hook the piece up, and watch the amps change. I wish that statement said while I was plating in the Acid Copper at X amps and I submerged the 2nd piece in copy chrome the amps were at X. You need to have the power hooked up to your pieces before they touch the solution! I cannot stress this enough!!!

In all reality, you can run multiple tanks at one time. I used to do it all the time, however now I electroclean. The problem now is that when I electroclean, I run the piece in the cleaner at 6 volts. So if I had a piece in the tank at the same time and I run the volts up to 6 I burn the heck out of it.
Also, now I run the volts up to almost double as I'm putting the piece in the tank, and then quickly bring it down to where I need to be.

Are you maintaining your brighteners

Try those things on scrap. Follow back up. What are your volts reading? I know Mark suggested this before, but then you made no mention of it in your response. I'm telling you it works too.

A bright plate will show up almost immediately, so when working with scrap pieces, put them into your tanks for 5 minutes. I'm pretty sure those "bulldogs" are pot metal. You think you have problems now??

-Jimmy.[/QUOTE]

1. Alright I will use the copper wire( had some serious issues with my FIRST chrome setup and copper and had to get a new batch, yeah that was bad!) which is why I went to stainless.
2. Alright about 2 volts is what he said I will try that next
3. I understand this and will try it next, the reason I was doing it this way is how I interpreted it in the manual. (actually it does not say WHEN to hook it to the power, so I, thats right, I ASSUMED, now I know better, thats good info. So you are saying to double amps while submerging the part and then once submerged go to the correct amps right away? I will try this.

Brighteners are new, these are the first items I plated in this tank.

I can read the VOLT meter much easier on the big machine and for the smaller I use an EC154 digital readout...(I wonder how hard it would be to replace the volt meter in the big machine with a digital readout? but I digress)

Yes they are pot metal, but they are brass plated and I have inspected all of them (while on the trucks) and believe it or not they are not pitted at all, they are a dull grey but no pitting..YET. I think they are zinc plated over brass because I cannot find anything that looks like chrome on them, but who knows for sure. The Lettering is plastic but they have a "diamond" design inside the block letters, this is why I need them to come out shiny!

Thank you for you insight and help, I will bet back with you after I experiment a bit with this advice, I really thank you and KCV6 more than you could imagine!

[woodjames]

It's mainly on aluminum that I crank the amps at first. I do it to get a quick plate on the zincate. I don't think you'd have to do it.

Originally Posted by Gently

[QUOTE Things to try...
1. Get rid of the stainless steel wire to hang your parts. It has INCREDIBLY high resistance. It's pretty much the same as nichrome wire. Use copper wire as hanging wire, and Copper pipe as a hanger bar.
2. Go with what KCV6 said about the volts. This is the way that I do it also.
3. I'm a little concerned that you can hook the piece up, and watch the amps change. I wish that statement said while I was plating in the Acid Copper at X amps and I submerged the 2nd piece in copy chrome the amps were at X. You need to have the power hooked up to your pieces before they touch the solution! I cannot stress this enough!!!

In all reality, you can run multiple tanks at one time. I used to do it all the time, however now I electroclean. The problem now is that when I electroclean, I run the piece in the cleaner at 6 volts. So if I had a piece in the tank at the same time and I run the volts up to 6 I burn the heck out of it.
Also, now I run the volts up to almost double as I'm putting the piece in the tank, and then quickly bring it down to where I need to be.

Are you maintaining your brighteners

Try those things on scrap. Follow back up. What are your volts reading? I know Mark suggested this before, but then you made no mention of it in your response. I'm telling you it works too.

A bright plate will show up almost immediately, so when working with scrap pieces, put them into your tanks for 5 minutes. I'm pretty sure those "bulldogs" are pot metal. You think you have problems now??

-Jimmy.

1. Alright I will use the copper wire( had some serious issues with my FIRST chrome setup and copper and had to get a new batch, yeah that was bad!) which is why I went to stainless.
2. Alright about 2 volts is what he said I will try that next
3. I understand this and will try it next, the reason I was doing it this way is how I interpreted it in the manual. (actually it does not say WHEN to hook it to the power, so I, thats right, I ASSUMED, now I know better, thats good info. So you are saying to double amps while submerging the part and then once submerged go to the correct amps right away? I will try this.

Brighteners are new, these are the first items I plated in this tank.

I can read the VOLT meter much easier on the big machine and for the smaller I use an EC154 digital readout...(I wonder how hard it would be to replace the volt meter in the big machine with a digital readout? but I digress)

Yes they are pot metal, but they are brass plated and I have inspected all of them (while on the trucks) and believe it or not they are not pitted at all, they are a dull grey but no pitting..YET. I think they are zinc plated over brass because I cannot find anything that looks like chrome on them, but who knows for sure. The Lettering is plastic but they have a "diamond" design inside the block letters, this is why I need them to come out shiny!

Thank you for you insight and help, I will bet back with you after I experiment a bit with this advice, I really thank you and KCV6 more than you could imagine![/QUOTE]

[Gently]

I want to thank James and KCV6 for their valuable assistance.
finally finished all three and they look fantastic!!!
I upped the amps and they came out MUCH better, but still needed buffing just not as dark a very light grey color and stayed that color as they dried, but buffed out real easy.

I am afraid to go any higher with the amps because one showed some heavy deposit on the very edge, not positive if it was from the high amps or the 2 hour plating time, but it is not noticeable. I also invested in a digital amp meter and put it in line with the power source so no more squinting to see the amp meter, that helped a lot!!

If anyone asks the real secret is....shhhhhh its a secret, dont tell anyone, PREPERATION and the water break test!

I think I may start a blog on the Mack bulldog since I have yet to start on it and maybe my errors could be helpful to others.

Thanks to all for the assistance!!!

[woodjames]

Edges will be high current density areas. If you can connect a wire to the part, and loop it around the edge, it will "absorb" the extra current, and the plate below will be more consistent. That is what is referred to as a robber.
Check your ph, it will rise as you plate, and can cause dullness also. Glad things are getting better for you.

Originally Posted by Gently

I want to thank James and KCV6 for their valuable assistance.
finally finished all three and they look fantastic!!!
I upped the amps and they came out MUCH better, but still needed buffing just not as dark a very light grey color and stayed that color as they dried, but buffed out real easy.

I am afraid to go any higher with the amps because one showed some heavy deposit on the very edge, not positive if it was from the high amps or the 2 hour plating time, but it is not noticeable. I also invested in a digital amp meter and put it in line with the power source so no more squinting to see the amp meter, that helped a lot!!

If anyone asks the real secret is....shhhhhh its a secret, dont tell anyone, PREPERATION and the water break test!

I think I may start a blog on the Mack bulldog since I have yet to start on it and maybe my errors could be helpful to others.

Thanks to all for the assistance!!!