There seems to be alot of leg work in plating PLEEASE HELP

[gsw3]

Ken,

I also have noticed that my acid copper solution (in the tank) is quite a bit darker then my new, never used, solution, however, I have not noticed any real differences in the plating.

I guess I have just been lucky using the tap water for the rinse.
No ill effects at all.
Would be safer (like you say) to use distilled water if unsure.
Spray rinsing with distilled water (with a pump type applicator) would be real safe as you would never contaminate any of the solutions.

As far as where I read the voltage at, my leads from my power supply to the anodes and the item being plated are very short (2 ft) and I read the voltage right off the power supplies digital meters.

When plating nickel over steel, my nickel solution develops a yellow sediment and as long as I keep it filtered it is fine.

The copper solution develops a sediment (that looks like copper powder) in the solution after heavy use and again, just filtering it keeps it going with no problems.

Perhaps the key to all this is filtering the solutions.

George W.

[dadkar2]

George,

Yes, perhaps you're right about the filtering, and I think Caswells sells some new gadgets to recirculate and filter. If the tanks are large enough to accommodate them, it would be worth a try, I guess.

Thanks,
Ken

[dagobert]

GSW,
What are you using for this "roto-plater" set-up, and where could I get one? It sounds like it would be great for helping eliminate the shadows I get with just hanging the parts. Also, how large of a part are you doing with the no adjustment technique? I've also got a pro lab power supply (a KEPCO adjustable from 0-15V and 0-50A ) and I've found that even it seems to fall short on parts over about 40+ square inches surface area.

[gsw3]

I made the roto-plater myself.

Basically a 24rpm 12Vdc gearhead motor suspended over the tanks.
I put a resistor in series with it to lower the speed to about 16rpm.

I made a machined nose piece that fastens to the output shaft of the gearhead motor and a spring wiper spring makes contact (Negative DC from power supply) with the nose piece.
A 1/16" hole is in the end of the nose piece and the cathode hanging wire fastens in it with a allen head screw.

Always get perfect plating coverage (I also use (2) anodes and large air bubble agitation) and you don't have to stand over the solutions to turn/rotate the parts by hand.

The only expensive part is the Pittman gearhead motor.
Retail about $125.00 however, I have been getting them used, in good shape for $15.00 at a local surplus place.
Picked up the last one they had in stock on Friday.

They got a new shipment of a different brand (and have about 100 of them) new, for $12.50.
Not as well built (duh...$125 verses $12.50, but should last a year or so)

http://www.skycraftsurplus.com/index...p;Category=128

It is the 6-12Vdc gearhead motor on that web page.
It turns about 6rpm at 12Vdc.

I could send you some .pdf.s of my plans.
You would have to adapt the plans a little to fit the above motor however.
e-mail me if you want me to sent them.

About the largest parts I plate are about 50 sq inches because of my small tank size (2 gal tanks).
Because I plate mainly copper and nickel I usually do not exceed 5 to 6 amps.

George W.

[Gabourie]

I am very interest in the part rotator. How is the motor isolated from the current? I am also very interested in the ramping up of the current. I will try that. So in the manual when it states to use 1 amp per 16sq " how does that related to your values? Are you not using constant current mode? The power supplies I have are 30 volt 20 amp. I need to run a resistor in series to get the unit to "start", a little frustrating at the higher currents. So this kinda messes with the voltage. Can too many volts cause poor adhesion?

[gsw3]

Gabourie, to answer your questions:


1. How is the motor isolated from the current?

The gear motor operates off of 12 Vdc and I use an ac/dc adapter (wall wart) to power the gear motor.
Initially, I was concerned about the isolation, however, I have used this set up for (2) years with no issues.
Also, remember that only the negative from the power supply is actually connected to the gear motor nose.


2. So in the manual when it states to use 1 amp per 16sq " how does that related to your values?

Well, if you do the numbers:
1 amp = 1000 Ma.
1000 divided by 16 equals 62.5 ma., so it is pretty darn close.
I have found that using my settings results in about .001" to .0015" plating thickness per hour.


3. Are you not using constant current mode?

Nope, I did initially, however, I get better results when just setting the voltage.
I set the current limit at about the half way point (for my supply it would be about 5A).
I could set it to max. however, I keep it at about 5A incase I accidently short something together.


4. Can too many volts cause poor adhesion?

I have found that too little voltage/current will cause the part to just oxidize in the solution (real bad if doing steel parts) and too high (way out of range) causes a rough, sandy looking plate and poor adhesion.

Ok, I have a question for you.
I have read your posts about needing the resistor to get the power supply to "start".
I am wondering if your power supply is a analog transformer design or a digital switcher design. If your not sure, see below.

If a transformer design it would weight about 40 to 50 pounds.
A switcher design would weigh about 10 pounds.

I am thinking it is a switcher design because of the starting problem (and the low $300.00 cost of the supply).

Nothing "wrong" with a switcher design (they are more efficient and are used in all computers) I just think that the switcher design can not handle max. loading at start up. I think it is seeing a "short" thus it won't start up.
By adding a resistor, you are faking it out into thing there is less of a load at start up.


George W.

[Gabourie]

George
No it is not the transformer type. Have you ever noticed how hind sight is always 20 /20. I guess that is correct we are tricking it into thinking there is not a short. In the acid copper it is really bad. Even the nickel needs a resistor to start. The flash copper does not need one. I will try the constant voltage way I am very interested in seeing how it works for me. I also now see what you mean about the rotor only seeing the positive side. Great idea. I have a small gear motor I could use for that, I'll have to try that too. Thanks again.

[gsw3]

Gabourie, after trying the constant voltage method be sure and let me know how it worked out for you.

Please try it on some "scrap" parts first (just incase it does not work).
I hate to mislead people, however, as I said, this method works great for me.

Thanks.

George W.

[Gabourie]

George,
I tried the constant voltage a bit, but I need to hook up a volt meter after the resistor as the meter on the power supply is being effected by the resistor. But it did plate. I have also done 2 other tests. One was to dilute the Sp degreasor and also used the nickel as the strike then copper and nickel to finish. The nickel stayed on this time. I also set up a small dip tank to rinse along with the spray.
I get a lot of plating done commercially and I know the platers I use their set up is very straight forward: degrease>rinse> flash>rinse> nickel> rinse>dry. And their nickel stays on. It seems to be a little different colour too. Oh well I think I am on to something.
I did a bit of experimenting with the sp finding that even after rinsing I felt a slippery feeling on the metal. After I diluted the sp it did not have that slippery feeling and did not break the water. That is a cool tool for telling if a part is clean. I put some parts in the rinse and brought them out to see for sure what it looks like when water breaks and it doesn't take much to make it break. I even degreased a part then touched it and watched the water break. Quite an eye opener.
Thanks again. I will try the constant voltage again to see if it helps too.

[gsw3]

Gabourie, you got be thinking about the water break test.

One thing I have noticed over the years is that if the part is highly polished (like a mirror) then washed and rinsed well, water will still bead up on the part surface and not sheet off (thus breaking the rule on the water break test).

Even after ultrasonic cleaning and ultrasonic rinsing a highly polished part, the water will still bead up on the surface (and you know it is clean if it has been ultrasonically cleaned and rinsed).

I think you may be on to something with the SP degreaser, in that it is not being throughly removed prior to plating.

Also, as I stated in an earlier post, everything I plate (steel, brass, copper and of course nickel) gets a 30 second dip in nickel pickle and then a 30 second rinse prior to going into any of the plating baths.

I'm sure my method above (in your case) would neutralize any remaining alkaline cleaning solution that may remain on the part.

Try a sample piece and let be know.

George W.