George W. aka GSW3

[aalamo]

Hi George,
I saw your web site and it looks amazing; you really know what you are doing. I live in Tampa, and I already posted some questions. However I have not gotten any answers. Would you mind helping me. I do metal sculptures and I am only interested in copper plating some pieces. With that in mind how many tanks should I have in my set up? Also, living in Florida my garage gets pretty hot in summer would that affect the performance of the process?, And finally, since I saw your roto system I would like to know if you are willing to share some drawings or instructions with me.
Thank you
so much
Alfredo Alamo

[gsw3]

Alfredo, copper plating is a pretty simple (ditto for nickel) and you only really need the following:

A power source (D.C.)
anodes
(1) acid pre-dip tank
(1) rinse tank
(1) plating tank
air source for agitation (LARGE bubbles)

A lot of platers use a hot tank (180 degrees F.) of SP degreaser , however, I use either "Dawn" dishwashing detergent for large parts or my ultrasonic cleaner for smaller parts.
As long as the part passes the "water break" test (water sheets off the part rather then beads up on the part after washing) you will be OK.

Don't ever touch the part with your bare hands (or dry it off) after washing/rinsing.
Go right into the acid pre dip tank, rinse tank and then go "Hot" (electrically connected) directly into the plating tank.

For most anything, an hour in the plating solution is required.
Be careful if the part is critical. An hour will built up the part by .001+ per side.
If plating close fitting parts or screw threads you have to take this into consideration.

What concerns me is the type of work you do.
I assume that you are thinking that the copper plating will come out all nice and shiny right out of the tank.

It won't. The copper comes out of the tank a smooth, dull, pink color that must be buffed to bring it to a high mirror like shine.

While this is really no big deal for most anything I do, for small intricate items it may prove to be a challenge.

I plate a lot of non-conductive items (plastic, foam, leaves, bugs, and soon animal skulls) and do to the nature of the leaves and bugs, you just can not buff them. Therefore, I use a Caswell's conductive copper paint and go directly to nickel plating them.

As far as the temp. of the plating....I always run my solutions at "garage" temp.
Could be 75 to 95 degrees F. depending on the season here in Florida.
No ill effects what so ever. In the winter I will put in a heater to bring it to 75 degrees.

I could sent you some .pdf's of the AutoCad drawings on the rotoplater.
It is pretty simple to construct.
Getting the small D.C. gear motor will be the most expensive part (and machining a "nose" and conductive wiper contact for the motor shaft to connected the cathode wire requires some mechanical "know-how".

My rotor plater device is made for two gallon tanks. Anything larger and you will have to adjust the dimensions accordingly.

E-mail me thru my profile and I will sent you the pdf.s of the drawings of the rotor plater.

Later....


George W.
Orlando, FL

[dadkar2]

George,

I'm re-invigorated with your "bubble" idea. I used to do this but got tired of my 25 gal compressor cycling all the time. Once I get my new IR 60 gal 175psi compressor (next few weeks) I might run some PVC air line and give it another try!!

The other problem I had was regulator drift. The level you need is in the "noise floor" of the regulator.

Do you know if there is a pvc-compatible regulator out there that would be optimized for <5psi applications?

Kind regards,
Ken

[dadkar2]

George,

Do you think the rotation approach is required for copper? Caswell's Flash Copper and Acid copper have amazing throws. I would think that 4 anodes located evenly spaced around the tank would do the job, or not?

Kind regards,
Ken

[gsw3]

Most likely (4) anodes would do the trick just as well.

Since I plate copper, nickel and Copy Chrome (and the nickel anodes are way more expensive then the copper anodes) I use (2) 4 x 6 anodes in a two gallon tank, lots of large air bubbles and the rotation device.

I have never, ever, had to buff the nickel or copy chrome after plating over the copper with my set up.

The parts look just like a mirror right out of the tank (of course I go to great pains to insure the base copper looks the same first thru a lot of manual finishing).

BTW: The copper comes out pink and as smooth as a babys butt and is easy to buff with the same set up.


George W.

[dadkar2]

George,

I use a 14x7 rectangular tank, about 10 inches deep. I put two anodes in the front (long side), and a half anode on each of the two short sides. I am plating bell covers and bezels for clocks--and keys, setters, etc which are small enough to plate well regardless of orientation. I never want to buff the nickel because the bells have holes and slots in them. Try buffing them and you'll tear up the nickel around the openings. It's a fact of life that irregular edges catch the buffing wheel and wear through readily. So the parts must have the buff and finish needed before the nickel tank.

A challenge is keeping the buffed copper from getting very fine scratches if it rubs up against the plastic tank sides! Copper's that soft--and I'm that picky.

The only thing they get when they come out of the nickel is a hand rub down with a diaper and Fritz metal polish, which gives them a nice luster and some light wax.

Because of my other clock work, I use ammoniated clock cleaning solution in an ultrasonic tank to degrease after buffing. Boy does that work well. Then I follow up with a soak in a cleaning solution designed for professional plating. I love Caswell's products but personally I got somewhat erratic results with SP Degreaser. I can understand why he sells it--there is no personal hazard or disposal problem with it. But it wasn't until I started using the professional stuff (which contains lye) that I got repeatably good results, time after time. I wish Mike would consider carrying the stuff. I'd love to buy it from him, as opposed to buying a minimum 5 gallon tub every time I need some.

Many of my parts are steel. I have had great luck with Caswell's Flash Copper. I like it because if I rub through any of those edges during sanding, I don't have to go back to the nickel. And it unfortunately is almost unavoidable with the edges.

I have thought about the rotational mechanism for the small parts, but the throw of the formulations is good enough that the parts plate evenly. The backs of the bells which are 5-6 inches in diameter don't need much plating thickness, as they see no wear and are barely visible. They do get enough field that the insides plate up nicely and have a good appearance. But I've considered using one of my many clock motors (1rpm) to do a rotating cathode. One day perhaps I'll build up a proto and we can compare notes.

Kind regards,
Ken

[gsw3]

Ken, Sounds like you have everything working to your liking.

It is great how we all discover different ways of getting the results we need.

You can try and tell someone how you do it, however, experimenting is the only way to fine tune your set up, techniques and procedures.

In these days, not too many young people have that "experimental urge".
They want instant results and gratification.
It is a shame.


Anyhow, I also use an ultrasonic cleaner (looking at a bigger one for larger parts as mine is small) and I could kick myself for not buying a five gallon Branson ultrasonic cleaner that a place I worked at (it was going out of business) offered me for....ready.....don't get sick on me now......$200.00!

Oh well, sometimes you have a judgement lapse! LOL


I will have to try the flash copper one of these days.
I just go nuts when I am sanding the copper and break thru the nickel into the steel.
I always put on an hours worth of nickel flash (well, ok it really is not a flash coat if it is in the soup for an hour) to keep me from going into the steel.


Have you (or know anyone who has) tried Caswell's new silver paint for non-conductives?
I have been using Caswell's copper paint and getting fairly good results (sometimes there are areas that just won't take the nickel).

I have a few non-conductives to plate and really want to try it.

George W.

[dadkar2]

I have tried the silver, but only with a flash copper plate afterwards. The flash copper just lifted the paint right off. So, I owe a try to the nickel plating bath after the paint.

My gut tells me that the paint has to be baked on before attempting plating. Not sure how to do that. Would be great to talk to the original manufacturer and find out what they recommend. Sometimes a web search using Google can turn up a few hints. I have not perfected that aspect of it yet.

Kind regards,
Ken

[dadkar2]

George,

I found some info on silver paint used in scanning electron microscopy. It appears to be similar to or the same as what Caswell supplies. Here is the instruction they offer on drying.

Drying: The paint was formulated to be air dried to a tack-free state within 30 minutes. Adequate conductivity and adhesion are achieved after 24 hours in air at 25 °C. Adhesion may be improved if necessary and the cure accelerated by force drying at 100-150 °C for 15-30 minutes.

It behooves one to allow this stuff to CURE completely before attempting plating. Some solvent-based paints can take a week to cure without baking.

Let me know and I can forward you more info on the properties and characteristics of silver paint.

Kind regards,
Ken

[Gabourie]

I would like to ask a question about the flash copper.
Just to back up a bit. I have a 15 gallon tank of flash copper and at one time it was working great. Meaning great throwing as well as a nice color. Now I am getting black spots as well as spots that are not plating or even not throwing onto areas in front of the anodes. I do not know what happened? Any ideas?
To change the subject, I have tried the silver paint on a leaf and it worked good. The only problem I had was getting the current to go low enough. But I will try again soon.
On bare steel the flash copper works great. On a part that I have stripped the nickel off I am running into problems. I ran the solution through a filter with activated charcoal thinking I had contamination. But the results on the bare steel tells me it is not that.
Thanks