dadkar2 please help on this

I am thinking about getting the copy chrome and from caswell to do side covers and small motor cycle part's head light levers ect. and little brackets to offer my customers.

How well do you think this will hold up as to the electroless krome set up? I have talked to graig @ caswell many times but i am still unsure .. which would be better. I do know i still need to buff the parts out so get that smooth look to them .. any input?

I am getting the black krome setup. I don't have to worry about the d.e.p as much as the others but i don't want to take it larger than a hobby size.
thank ken and any one else that can help

[dadkar2]

Hey There Custom,

At one time, the copy chrome was a nickel-based product with cobalt additive. According to Caswell, the new formulation is cobalt-based salts. Their plating properties are very similar to nickel. I know from direct experience that electroplating will give a more attractive appearance vs. electroless. In fact, in our work, we use electroplating almost exclusively when aesthetic properties are key.

Having said that, there are numerous articles written recently discussing the properties of non-chromium replacements. The reason for this is that in the electronics industry there is a major initiative underway at this very moment to eliminate hazardous materials used in electronics manufacture. This initiative is known as RoHS (Reduction of Hazardous Substances). In many of these articles, the cobalt-nickel-iron alternatives are claimed to be superior to chromium in hardness and wear resistance. One of the neat things about electroless nickel is that it can be heat treated to where it has superior hardness to chromium, as well. So, these are the alternatives that people are pursuing in the industry today.

Given all that, with some research we can determine if the cobalt formulation (electroless or electrolytic) is better than chrome for durability. I'll look around over the next few days and see what I can learn at work. In the meantime, I would suggest that for aesthetic purposes on a show piece or something that will not be driven in salt spray or exposed to beach sand, the standard eletrolytic copy chrome would be your best bet.

You might also consider electroplating for a little longer than normal; say, 90 minutes, to build up a little extra material to protect the substrate and give your customer something more to polish in case scuffing or abrasion occurs.

Kind regards,
Ken

[dadkar2]

Here is a link to a technical article that discusses cobalt-tin as a viable alternative to chrome plating for hardness. We can check with Caswell to find out if his copy chrome is a pure cobalt or cobalt tin. This article describes that the cobalt-tin (called in this article chromvert) as a very viable, wear-resistant substitute for chromium. It also describes cobalt plating (such as Caswell's copy-chrome) as a highly wear-resistant plating, as well (but not evaluated in detail). All of the described are electroplated alternatives to chrome.

http://www.pfonline.com/articles/120102.html

Kind regards,
Ken

thank you.. if you find out anything please keep me posted..

[Westy]

I have used the copy chrome process on motorcycle parts, namely exhaust/ rear footpeg brackets and antenna brackets. I live on southern Ontario, and find that the copy chrome tarnishes after the first rain, and needs to be taken off and rebuffed, everytime it rains. It will turn and remain a dull golden brown if it is not repolished.

You may dismiss my comments, because I am a rookie, but I do get a great finish with the combination of flash copper and copy chrome. All my pieces look great after plating, but the finsh soon deteriorates outside in the elements. I do not live near the ocean so there is no salt in the air, but like most of us, I am plagued with acid rain.

[mikedinmd]

i am following this with great interest as i am looking hard at copychrome. westy, are you referring to the old nickel based copychrome or the new formula? are you using anythig to protect the finish? mike

with the copy chrome can i powder coat clear over it to help keep it looking good?

[fxstcguy98]

It sounds to me like you will be chroming cycle parts for customers. There is nothing that can give a more professional look and durability as the triple chrome setup. I know copy chrome is easier and probably cheaper to get started in, but are you willing to jeopadize your reputation of doing quaility work? Just my 2 cents.
ANY type of plating that you do will require buffing. Plating is 90% prep work, what you see when in goes in, is what you'll see when it comes out.
One other thing worth looking into, I believe you have to keep track of the amp hours in the tank and replenish electroless accordingly.

the polishing i have no problem with i get all my polish to look like chrome .. i don't think the electoless is going to hold up either .. i need to do some more reading up... but thanks for the input all the input is taken in consideration on this matter

[dadkar2]

I went to visit a professional plater in my area today. The guy has 20 years experience. He said he has dropped chrome plating as an offering because he is tired of the environmental hassles and problems. This seems to be a trend. Interestingly, he says that the automotive industry is now insisting on trivalent chrome (a less carcinogenic material than hexavalent) but he can't make a living at it because it is more expensive to set up and run. The customer isn't so willing to pay for the more expensive but less hazardous process.

He also suggested nickel-zinc. Will have to see what the literature says about that one. There doesn't seem to be much written on the durability of these chrome alternatives, except for what Caswell customers have experienced.

Ken