oven parts help needed

[grommit]

hello chromo n guys,
i have searched and searched til i am totally confused, i am trying to sourse all the parts i need to run my oven, this is all the electric parts.
the ovens dimensions are height 129cm width 56cm and depth 71cm.
how many heating elements etc.? i know there is a conversion on the site but as i said i am worn out searching its totally confused.
pleasde if possible could you show a link to the parts to hel pme out.

the donar oven idea has come to a stand still as out of 5 ovens they just weren't any good.
please see my thread 'oven build help,with pics' for the pics of the oven.
many thanks.
its nearly midnight here in the UK so its time for a nightcap then off to bed ready for a full day in the garage.
thanks all,
regards
Brian
UK

[CarWiz]

To heat your space, you'll need just over 1300w to raise the temperature 350 over ambient. If you went with 2000w, you'll reduce heat-up time and have better control over fluctuations. You can get 2k heater elements pretty cheap. At least on this side of the pond. You'll only need one.

As far as the rest of the parts, I suppose it depends on how deep your pockets are and how accurate you want the temp.

[baz]

50 inch x 22 inch x27 inch i dont think the 1500 watt element will cut it.
i know those figures have been taken from that calculator but i don t really beleive those figures.
your oven is about twice the size of a household oven wich already uses more then that 1500 w
i would go for 3000 watt minimum even ore if your electrical supply can support it.
i came across a place that sells elements in the uk .heres the link
http://www.elementman.com/

for the thermostat or pid controller . look on ebay for (pid controller) i suggest you check with your electrician an then call the seller to make sure it is compatible with your electrical supply .you will also need a relay that is compatible with the controller and your electricl needs to drive the elements

[grommit]

for the thermostat or pid controller . look on ebay for (pid controller) i suggest you check with your electrician an then call the seller to make sure it is compatible with your electrical supply .you will also need a relay that is compatible with the controller and your electricl needs to drive the elements

[/quote]
hello guys thanks so much for your replies, please can anyone explain in non confusing electric speak what a PID is and what it does, i am assuming it controls the heat? i think a thermo coupler reads the heat, and will it be dispalyed in the PID, in theory i am better off using a donor oven as even i can trace wires etc, dismantle and then get a electrician to put it together, obviously the heat up times will be longer but hopefully the desired effect will be good.
i would be happy to buy all new parts but i just do not know what i need well apart from a 3000+ watt element for now.
many thanks,

[ed_denu]

The PID's sold on ebay and other sources are not very complicated in most senses. They just work to control a temperature set point with the added ability to set off alarms at high and low temp(if desired). The thermo coupler mounts inside the oven and reports back to the pid the actual oven temperature. The pid then works to maintain the set point temperature from this feedback.

In addition to a pid you will need an SSR(solid state relay) to drive the elements. The pid circuitry is not robust enough to handle the load of the elements so that is where the SSR comes in. During heat-up times, the pid sends a DC voltage signal to the SSR(s) which then closes the 'load' contacts, providing power to the element(s). Once the temperature set point is reached the pid cycles the SSR on and off to maintain the set point.

Read some of the prior posts on this site as they contain much information about what is needed to complete your oven. There are several wiring diagrams posted which should give you a good idea about the overall setup.

The other things you might consider are:

A master disconnect for the 240VAC
An on/off switch for the PID
A light for inside the oven
A fan or blower to recirculate heat.
High temp wire going into the elements
Heat sink for the SSR

An appropriately sized circuit for the oven.

I can also send you my oven wiring diagram if you send me your email address.

[baz]

hello guys thanks so much for your replies, please can anyone explain in non confusing electric speak what a PID is and what it does, i am assuming it controls the heat? i think a thermo coupler reads the heat, and will it be dispalyed in the PID, in theory i am better off using a donor oven as even i can trace wires etc, dismantle and then get a electrician to put it together, obviously the heat up times will be longer but hopefully the desired effect will be good.
i would be happy to buy all new parts but i just do not know what i need well apart from a 3000+ watt element for now.
many thanks,[/quote]
i think you are overcomplicating things a bit.
you are rght about the pid,ed denu is also right about his explanation.
you can use a ssr (solid state relay ) or a mechanical relay to run your elements.
i also sent you a wiring diagram as a sample and you can find other diagrams in older threads
with all respect ,if your electrician can not wire a thermostat or a pid to a relay and then to elements maybe you should look for another electrician.
to ed_denu s list you add a temp controller ( thermostat or pid )a thermocouple ,a relay (ssr or mechanical), elements and you have pretty much all you need to make it happen
i also posted a couple of links where you can find all of the above.
just make sure the relay is capable of supporting the amps needed to run the elements and also ask your supplier a pid and a relay that work with the same voltage
using a donor oven is one way to do it but if you do not use relay you might be limited on the size of element that the oven thermostat can handle

[grommit]

morning baz,
ya right i do over complicate things when it comes to electrics, i have distanced myself form dabbling with it since a near fatal accident a few years ago, 240volts from the top of my head and if it wasn't for my pal kicking the stool away and letting me drop to the ground i would of been dead, ceiling electrics was the last time i had anything to do with the 'shocking thing'
i have the insulation coming in a couple of days going to use rockwool.
i will provide pics today on my progress so far, but to be honest they will be similar to ones already on this forum, but if they can help someone then i will be happy.
i done more research last night on PID,SSR etc. and it is slowly making sence, to me it is like someone writing about scientific formulas, i haven't got a clue but slowly i will learn about it. hope that makes sence. maybe i am just a crazy Brit.
many thanks once again for taking the time to send links advice etc.
regards,
Brian

[deltabravo]

Hello Brian, I am English based too, If you are a little dubious about electrical safety, fit an rccb/elcb trip to the oven supply point. There are 100s of these available very cheaply on ebay, or go to your local skip yard and take one off a scrap fuseboard. You want one marked as 30Ma trip current,rated at the output current (amps) you require, for 3000 watts a 13 amp trip is fine, you can get them from Maplins on line as well,I hope this helps, kind regards, Bob. If your near West Bromwich I will give you one gratis.

[grommit]

Hello Bob,
great to hear from you pal, i'm a geordie working down Norfolk, and i suppose you can tell by my posts i am apsolutely scared of electrics. just read your reply and to be honest its double dutch to me, so i am hoping that i secure that donor oven before long.
what a palava getting the foam out of the oven, 60mm of the horrible stuff, i have ordered 50mm rock wool and comensated for the 10mm.
hello Baz, my electrician will be able to do the work he just isn't at work yet, its me that is no good.
anyway here is a pic of the oven about an hour and a half ago, it looks nothing like it now.
[IMG][/IMG]
well guys its time to get my work clothes sorted for another busy week.
nice ta have you on the forum Bob.nice for that extra help from a fellow Brit.
talk to you all soon,
Bran

[fmahone]

PID stands for Proportional-Integral-Differential. It relates to the way you can program the response of the controller as to temperature ramping, on/off timing and other assorted functions.

I have set up several for use in the Physics Department here at Tech and have yet to use enough of the functions to justify the price. Plus, you need to learn industrial control to understand the booklet that comes with them.

Wen you buy your controller, make sure it can directly drive the SSR. That is the type we buy.
otherwise, you will have to use the relay contacts and a separate power supply to turn on the SSR. Be careful with the SSR, one of the students found out, the hard way, that a non-loaded SSR has leakage of the ac voltage, high enough to give you a serious bite.

Our experience is that the Omega brand of PID are not all that great, they have processor failure. There is a company in England, West is their name. That way you have local help.