Lurked for long enough. couple of ?s on new build

[StlS_Ron]

ok first off great forum. I have lurked around this forum non stop for the last few days getting info and some fresh ideas for an oven I'm in the process of building.

I'm putting together an inside dimensions of 4' wide 3' tall 2' deep. With a slide in divider wall for only half use of oven. Front swing door if it matters to anyone. Steel stud frame and sheet metal inner and outer.

I generally overkill most things. The BTU calculator indicated 2256 watts. I'm looking to have adequate heat up times without drawing 4,000 amps! I have not checked my actual voltage output yet, but, have been thinking of 2 of these

NONE - CH5853-458521 - RANGE OVEN ELEMENT - Neobits Inc.

At 208 its rated 1875 at 240 its rated at 2500W

Worst case 2 x 1800 at 208 = 3600

Can someone figure out the amperage draw of these?

I'd like to get some of your guys opinions. alot of guys are gutting standard kitchen ovens. Anyone know what the average output of those elements are. The reason I ask is there is a double oven for sale locally here. GE double wall oven
It would be nice if i could build the oven and use all the inner components from it to finish my project. IE thermostat, controls, etc. It would also be cheaper if all I needed was building supplies (sheet metal, framing, insulation) and the donor oven supply all the electronics

Thanks guys. I'm actually looking forward to do project.

[ed_denu]

Originally Posted by StlS_Ron

ok first off great forum. I have lurked around this forum non stop for the last few days getting info and some fresh ideas for an oven I'm in the process of building.

I'm putting together an inside dimensions of 4' wide 3' tall 2' deep. With a slide in divider wall for only half use of oven. Front swing door if it matters to anyone. Steel stud frame and sheet metal inner and outer.

I generally overkill most things. The BTU calculator indicated 2256 watts. You will get a better estimate if you use average insulation instead of good. 2256 is a little low, I would look to around 3000+ I'm looking to have adequate heat up times without drawing 4,000 amps! I have not checked my actual voltage output yet, but, have been thinking of 2 of these

NONE - CH5853-458521 - RANGE OVEN ELEMENT - Neobits Inc.

At 208 its rated 1875 at 240 its rated at 2500W

208 is 3 phase power. Unless you are in an industrial/business area I doubt you are going to have 3 phase. Therefore you would be looking at 240 volts single phase.

Worst case 2 x 1800 at 208 = 3600

Can someone figure out the amperage draw of these?At 240 volts these elements would draw 10.4 amps each.

I'd like to get some of your guys opinions. alot of guys are gutting standard kitchen ovens. Anyone know what the average output of those elements are. The reason I ask is there is a double oven for sale locally here. GE double wall ovenI would venture a guess that most ovens are in the 2500-3000 watt range
It would be nice if i could build the oven and use all the inner components from it to finish my project. IE thermostat, controls, etc. It would also be cheaper if all I needed was building supplies (sheet metal, framing, insulation) and the donor oven supply all the electronics

Thanks guys. I'm actually looking forward to do project.

see above comments

[StlS_Ron]

OK. . . . .

before visiting this forum i knew absolutely nothing about ovens. how they worked, how they were built, or what parts were needed. I have read what i think is every thread on this forum at least once and think i have a pretty go understanding.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

The PID gets the current temperature thru a thermocouple, and acts as a thermostat. The SSR actually kicks the elements on and off from the PIDS signal.

Basically the pid, ssr, and elements are all that are needed for an oven to function. If this is true then it would be cheaper and easier to buy the parts needed rather than getting an old oven and gutting it.

Ok with that said and assuming that it is correct I would like to know if anyone knows of a PID that can control two different zones? IE: If i slide in a divider only to fire and control the left or right side of an oven. (one big oven that can act as two)

So going with my original posted plan. two of these NONE - CH5853-458521 - RANGE OVEN ELEMENT - Neobits Inc. will need two SSRs and at least one PID. and will pull roughly 21 amps.

And BTW I started the framing of my oven tonight as well.

Thanks in advance for any help you can give

[ed_denu]

Originally Posted by StlS_Ron

OK. . . . .

before visiting this forum i knew absolutely nothing about ovens. how they worked, how they were built, or what parts were needed. I have read what i think is every thread on this forum at least once and think i have a pretty go understanding.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

The PID gets the current temperature thru a thermocouple, and acts as a thermostat. The SSR actually kicks the elements on and off from the PIDS signal. Basically true. The pid is more intelligent than just a simple thermostat in that it can be programmed to anticipate how quickly an oven will reach and maintain set temperature versus a thermostat which just turns the elements off at a given set point. The pid circuitry is not substantial enough to handle the elements load, which is why the relay is required.

Basically the pid, ssr, and elements are all that are needed for an oven to function. Again, basically true, although besed on the size of the oven, a recirculating fan is often needed to produce even temperatures throughout. If this is true then it would be cheaper and easier to buy the parts needed rather than getting an old oven and gutting it. I personally would not recommend gutting an old oven for electrical parts unless cost is the deciding factor.

Ok with that said and assuming that it is correct I would like to know if anyone knows of a PID that can control two different zones? IE: If i slide in a divider only to fire and control the left or right side of an oven. (one big oven that can act as two) I'm not aware of any, but I suppose you could use (2) pids. But then you would see different heat-up cycles which would probably require different pid parameter settings based on which part(s) of the oven were being used. Most of the divider ovens discussed here place the tc in the primary oven side.

So going with my original posted plan. two of these NONE - CH5853-458521 - RANGE OVEN ELEMENT - Neobits Inc. will need two SSRs and at least one PID. and will pull roughly 21 amps. You don't need (2) ssr's. An ssr is capable of supporting more than a single element. Capacity of the ssr(amps) is the deciding factor.

And BTW I started the framing of my oven tonight as well.

Thanks in advance for any help you can give

Rather than building a divider oven another option many of us use is to have a larger oven for big parts and a household oven for smaller parts.

[StlS_Ron]

The recirculating fan is in the plans as well. possibly 2 pending on how this goes.


This oven is purpose build for wheels. I'm sure I'll find other things here and there, But 99% of my needs are wheels. That the only problem with a household oven is the depth 18" deep. too small.

I'm just going to make it easier and scrub the whole separator idea and just build it and be done. that would prob be best.

do you know what gauge wire is nec for 40 or 50 amp breaker?

So parts list as of now:

1 PID
PID Temperature Controller Fah/Celsius + 40A SSR - eBay (item 350032448608 end time May-27-09 07:12:47 PDT)

1 SSR
New in Box Solid State Relay SSR 24-480V AC, 25A - eBay (item 370186672607 end time May-11-09 19:50:10 PDT)

1 Fan
Still Looking

2 Elements
NONE - CH776-456091 - RANGE OVEN ELEME - Neobits Inc.

Control box to house components
Still Building

High Heat Wire
Still Looking

Oven
Sill Building

missing anything? Feel free to tell me if the parts i have listed here are **** and I buy nicer parts

Ed thanks for all the help

[ed_denu]

Originally Posted by StlS_Ron

The recirculating fan is in the plans as well. possibly 2 pending on how this goes.


This oven is purpose build for wheels. I'm sure I'll find other things here and there, But 99% of my needs are wheels. That the only problem with a household oven is the depth 18" deep. too small.

I'm just going to make it easier and scrub the whole separator idea and just build it and be done. that would prob be best.

do you know what gauge wire is nec for 40 or 50 amp breaker? 40 amp requires #8. But based on your load, you could easily get by with a 30 amp circuit(10 Ga).

So parts list as of now:

1 PID
PID Temperature Controller Fah/Celsius + 40A SSR - eBay (item 350032448608 end time May-27-09 07:12:47 PDT) This auction is for a pid and 40 amp ssr.

1 SSR
New in Box Solid State Relay SSR 24-480V AC, 25A - eBay (item 370186672607 end time May-11-09 19:50:10 PDT)I would go with a 40A ssr for a little more capacity. Driving a 25A ssr at 21 amps is pushing the limit. But, you don't need this as the pid you are referencing comes with a 40A ssr. Just don't forget the heatsink!

1 Fan
Still Looking

2 Elements
NONE - CH776-456091 - RANGE OVEN ELEME - Neobits Inc.

Control box to house components
Still Building

High Heat Wire
Still Looking Look at McMaster(search hi tmep wire) or ebay on occasion.

Oven
Sill Building

missing anything? Feel free to tell me if the parts i have listed here are **** and I buy nicer parts

Ed thanks for all the help

You might want to add a switch or two for the fan and a light.

[jeeplogic]

Check out Grainger for a high temp fan. that is who I got mine from. decent price and has low output so not to disturb the powder. The other thing you can do is check out the local electric motor repair shop for a small motor with a long shaft you can put a fan blade on.

[StlS_Ron]

ok been a little bit. figured i'd let ya know. thanks again guys for the help thus far. I picked up some 12 foot steel studs toady. If i get some time this weekend imma get the frame built.

[StlS_Ron]

Ok took awhile to get back into this project. Have the oven ready for sheeting and insulation. I'm full steam ahead completely motivated to finish it (and actually have the finances ready. thats the amazing part).

I need to order parts. I figured I'd give ya guys another shot to tell me that I need something different or something of a little better quality than above mentioned. I just want to be confident that I'm not going to get the part here and realize that I needed something else.

The only other thing that I'm still kinda grey about is the appropriate cfm fan. not too much not too little. Let me know what ya think on this.

[jeeplogic]

Ron all you need is a fan big enough to circulate air. mine for a 140cf oven is 78cfm works great and as far as I can tell no hot or cold spots.