Phosphating and Chromating

[11111111]

thank you for the explanation.
Do all types of steel use the same wash? do all aluminum types use the same wash? also cast iron.
do you apply the wash the same way on all metals or are their different processes for the different metals.
Jeff

[non-stick]

generally speaking... phosphate is for steel, and chromate for aluminum. There are tons of variants out there but none that would really give you a huige advantage with the coatings you guys do as of now. Steel, Iron and the like... use the phospahte, all grades of aluminum, use the chromate, seeing as how you have the products available to you for stainless and brass/copper,etc... you can use those, but if they weren't offered here, I wouldn't write home about it. I've used cupric oxide salts before for copper when coating a thermoplastic... but if all's I had available to me was chromate... then I'd have used that instead without too much fuss. All washes are generally the same for you guys... warm/hot solution... dip in, leave for an amount of time.... rinse and then dry off. You can coat it after it's all dry. Work it all with the KISS method and you'll not have a problem, I assure you. De-Grease,Blast,Rinse/or solvent rinse if a chance of oil,Phosphate (or chromate or what have you),Rinse again,Dry,Coat. 7 steps, superior adhesion. All steps should be taken one right after the other to avoid any undue contamination or some such.... but as stated before, I think you guys know that already. Seldom does somebody blast steel, and then 3 weeks later try and coat it after it's been out for a while. If you miss a step, don't worry about it. The world won't collapse. Just start all over from square one and go through it all again. If it's something you can't blast for some odd reason.... degrease,phosphate (or again, chromate or what have you),rinse,dry,coat. It all works in the same method you just eliminated one step is all. The only one that is a necessity is the rinse off from your "chemical" prep. Other than that... I've seen every variation, but they all adhere to the same order. Degrease,blast,rinse/or chemically wash,dry,coat....... Degrease,chromate,rinse,dry,coat.... you get the idea. If it helps, write the 7 steps up on a piece of cardboard until you know it by heart. It should pretty much become second nature to you at some point in time quickly enough. If a part comes in greasy, you're not going to put it in your sandblast cabinet. If something is wet, you can't very well powder coat it until it's dry, and so on.

1) degrease
2) sandblast
3) rinse/and or chemically wash (alcohol is fine)
4) phosphate or chromate (or what have you that you choose for your substrate)
5) rinse chemical from step 4
6) dry thoroughly
7) coat

This is basically the best process you guys can use outside of buying expensive plasma and ultrasonic or parylene machines (all of which are totally un-necessary for you, might I add). Doing all of this in this manner will put you in the same league (if not better in some instances) as the pro's. A part done by you and a part done by a "big shop" will have no difference. Same 7 steps, same chemicals, same powders, same method of application.... same everything. You'll officially be coating on a "pro" level in a hobbyist form, so to speak. Good luck with it, bud. Don't forget to post your results here and of course... your pictures in the "album" for all to see ..... Russ

[11111111]

Okay I think I am on board so far. BUt I do have a question on the rinsing of the chemical off ( step #4). You mentioned earlier that it should be rinsed a certain way. Somebody a few threads back mentioned a halo rinse. I cant find any mention any where of a halo rinse. Can I just use a garden spray nozzle or do i need to fabricate something?
Jeff

[non-stick]

just rinse it really really well is all that's being said. Think of your garden hose and the spray pattern you get when rinsing off soap from washing your car. ( I really had hoped our new friend Bennie would have chimed in by now and imparted his wisdom upon us about what he meant). You know that pattern you get when the spray gun is opened half way? A lot of water in a big "ring" but not a lot of pressure? That should be sufficient to rinse your part. Flush with a lot of water to get "everywhere" but not a great deal of pressure. I have no doubt that a flush of water under your kitchen tap water would also be ok. I've done exactly that before and have had no problems..... Russ

[11111111]

sounds like a plann

[Bennie]

Bennie is back! Sorry I have been side tracked, have been researching blasting media and finally getting straight regarding MIls, Micron, MM, and all the rest that get connected to mesh sizes etc.

The suggestion of using a "halo rinse" and the response to the nozzle thing. You can check on afew general nozzles from local hardware supply outlets and fine one that renders a fine spray/fog. The "key" is not to allow the solution to flash dry. This is the important thing. Plus the finer the fog spray it will rinse better with more even distrubution than a heavy narrow stream. I will try to locate and pass along two great articles on water quality{that will add to basic understanding of rinses} And again check for water breaks on the part to confirm cleaning quality. Just cannot be too clean. I recently read a comparision statement, there is little difference between using a high quality coating on a dirty part as using a low quality coating on a super clean part. Makes sense to me. Bennie

[Bennie]

Bennie is back! Sorry I have been side tracked, have been researching blasting media and finally getting straight regarding MIls, Micron, MM, and all the rest that get connected to mesh sizes etc.

The suggestion of using a "halo rinse" and the response to the nozzle thing. You can check on afew general nozzles from local hardware supply outlets and fine one that renders a fine spray/fog. The "key" is not to allow the solution to flash dry. This is the important thing. Plus the finer the fog spray it will rinse better with more even distrubution than a heavy narrow stream. I will try to locate and pass along two great articles on water quality{that will add to basic understanding of rinses} And again check for water breaks on the part to confirm cleaning quality. Just cannot be too clean. I recently read a comparision statement, there is little difference between using a high quality coating on a dirty part as using a low quality coating on a super clean part. Makes sense to me. Bennie

[non-stick]

Thank you for adding the valuable insight,Bennie. I knew you'd be back . Keep up the good work and your research. Once again, welcome to the "boards".... Russ

[jacob2025]

Can anyone tell me anything about a pretreatment called PickleX?

[non-stick]

yeap... I most certainly can, I believe. In these very threads are comments regarding your question.

Picklex thread : http://www.caswellplating.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=1184

after you're done reading that.... move onto this one : http://www.caswellplating.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=1417 ( it's this very thread... read from first post to this one all over again to get some fresh insight)

and of course... you should always watch this one for updates and inspiration : http://www.caswellplating.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=1326

I must say..... that's probably the easiest reply I've never typed out,lol. Have fun with those threads and of course..... welcome to the "forum". I hope you have fun here as we all do..... Russ