A few ?

[cooldad]

Hey guys,
Hope everyone is doing well in plating land. I have been doing pretty good but recently came across a little problem. I have tried several runs on a couple of pieces off of a newer dirtbike. After several attempts of which all failed, I have come to the conclusion that the parts are made of magnesium instead of aluminum. My failures always consisted of the parts turning dark almost black by the time they were done in the ano tank. I had accepted the fact that I couldnt do these parts so I returned them to my friend. But a week later I was reading a moto mag, and there were pics of a pro's bike. They reported about his bike having magnesium hubs, and in the pics they were red. To me they looked like they were anodised, they just didnt have the look of paint or powdercoat. they had that see trough built in look. So I have had a few other questions that I havent taken the time to ask. So now I am going to ask them all. Some are for fun but some are serious.

1. Is there a way to anodise Magnesium?

2. How do you quickly identify the different metals that are so similar? Like aluminum from magnesium. Or the different types of aluminums from each other for that matter?

3. How do they put the fancy paint job on aluminum cans? I was killin time during a run and put a Coke can in the stripper and that fancy ad job does not come off. I always thought it was a cool ano job, but not so sure now.

4. when you guys are doing parts for somebody else, how do you come up whith your pricing rates? I have searched the web high and low, also called several commercial shops. I am not sure how to price out this service.

5. How do I find out in my state if I need a license to do anodising(if I do it for some one else and get paid), with out getting some department all worked up and then becoming a target for them?

Well I could pick your guys brains for hours about this kind of stuff, but I am late for work so Ill quit here. You all have a great day.

Thanks, Dave

[sswee]

I can't help with all but this is what I know,

1. Is there a way to anodise Magnesium?

Not familiar with any way, most magnesium or magnesium compound parts I know of are plated or painted.

2. How do you quickly identify the different metals that are so similar? Like aluminum from magnesium. Or the different types of aluminums from each other for that matter?

After 20 yrs+ in a machine shop you can tell a little when cutting a material what it could be but the only way for sure is to check with the manufacturer of the part or the material. That's why many parts for aviation use and others have to have material certificates with the parts from material manufacturer to end user.

3. How do they put the fancy paint job on aluminum cans? I was killin time during a run and put a Coke can in the stripper and that fancy ad job does not come off. I always thought it was a cool ano job, but not so sure now.

No idea. I'd like to know mwself. It will scratch off so I assumed some coating similar to screening

4. when you guys are doing parts for somebody else, how do you come up whith your pricing rates? I have searched the web high and low, also called several commercial shops. I am not sure how to price out this service.

Still working on that myself. I'm waiting on some info to a few inquiries I made. I'll let you know what I find out.

5. How do I find out in my state if I need a license to do anodising(if I do it for some one else and get paid), with out getting some department all worked up and then becoming a target for them?

What state are you in? To my knowledge, as a hobby size setup with zero waste to dispose of, you have no worries. I know some states are more environmentally sensitive, law wise that is. When we know the state, maybe someone can give a more definitive answer.

Don't know if I helped any, but that's my 2 cents. Best of luck. SS

[Fibergeek]

I'll put my say:

1. Yes, magnesium can be anodized, But that's all I know.

2. Like Sswee says.

3. Photo lithography.

4. Haven't a clue.

5. if you're NOT doing Type I anodizing (chromic acid based) you need no chemical licence. You may need a business licence, but's thats about all (zoning issues aside).

It is a mistake to assume there are any business lawyers here. Besides, we don't know what state you reside in.

[cooldad]

Thanks guys.

I wasnt really looking for leagal advise, just some tips from someone who may have already been there and done that. So as that I could head in the right direction. After alot of reading and searching on the web, I tend to look here where I find not only educated but experianced answers. For the most part the people in here are the guru's of plating.

That being said, I am in Michigan. I would like to do a little advertising to drum up some extra income. I feel like if I were to run an ad or somthing though I may run the risk of becoming a target for some doo gooder group. So for that reason I just want to be in the know.

As far as helping, yes definatly you guys helped. Although now that fibergeek confirmed my suspision about it being possible to ano Magnesium, lets just say I will probablly lose some sleep researching that one. But thats a good thing.

Im a little bummed about metal identifying though, cause if I am doing random parts of of bikes and lord knows what else, its not that easy to get manufacture specs on alot of the little stuff. But I guess thats where more experiance will come in.

Lastly if anyone knows more about this Photo lithography, I would love to here or read about it. It is such a slick looking job, would like to understand it better.

As always THANK YOU,
Dave

[M_D]

I know that business-licensing requirements vary from locality to locality, and some areas don’t even require them. Probably the safest thing is to inquire at local agencies. Zoning laws may also apply. Personally, I'm glad I don't have to deal with that here.

On the alloy identification subject, it is true that the machining characteristics reveal some clues.

Also, the way various alloys bend will differ, both in the force required and the tendencies to crack with tight bends. Of course, if you only have good parts you can't use destructive testing on them.

I have noticed distinct difference between the various alloys we use when etching and stripping. Also, there are lesser differences in the physical look of the anodized parts. For instance, 2000 series alloys build a smut layer sooner than 5000 and 6000 series alloys. Among the 6000 series, 6061 build a smut layer quicker than 6063, in fact 6063 tends to stay bright looking for a long time even when immersed in stripper or lye. The 6063 also tints much less from the actual anodizing process. That is also true of the alloys that are either pure or closer to pure aluminum.

It would be tough to say with certainty what an alloy was with out lab testing, but after enough experience working with known alloys you can probably narrow it down.

[cooldad]

Well with these parts that I think are Magnesium, when I wuld put them in the stripper they would turn almost black. But then after rinsing you could wipe the dark layer off with a wet towel or somtimes I would have to use a scotch brite to get them shiny again.

And your right about if I only have a customers good part, well theres not to mch testing you can do on it to identify.

[sswee]

Cast aluminum does the same thing in a lye etch. Usually looks like soot.

[kiwijetpilot]

On the subject of Coke cans...

I used to be involved in this. The process in use then consisted of a wide strip of aluminium that was run through a printing process using a special press. The process was more or less the same as printing anything else, except that a soft plate was used (Cyrel - a Dupont product - a bit like a thick layer of silicon). Once the printing was done, a thickish UV protection film was applied, which is what gives the printing it's durability.

Of course it may have changed by now, this was 16 years back.

[cooldad]

That answers another question. I was guessing that the printing was done before the can was made. That would be kinda cool to see a sheet with like 100 lables on it.

[pickleboy]

Thanks guys.

That being said, I am in Michigan. I would like to do a little advertising to drum up some extra income. I feel like if I were to run an ad or somthing though I may run the risk of becoming a target for some doo gooder group. So for that reason I just want to be in the know.

hi dave i am also in michigan and this is what i know about the advertising/ business part of your post.
first off are you looking to do this as a hobby/income or make a real business out of it. if the latter then by all means check with local authorities and get a dba business license, tax # etc:and advertise as you see fit. if the former then the best way to keep it under wraps is word of mouth. and go to shows (motorcycle,gun and knife etc: and carry some of your samples and photos with you.) i started a polish biz out of my garage and am planning on expanding to ano and powder in the future but time will tell. hope this helps. best of luck

[sswee]

If its like Texas, you would have do do a pretty good volume to make it worth filing a DBA and getting a tax number. What is working for me is a few pieces placed at a local custom shop and word of mouth to some speed shops.

[cooldad]

Thanks again,

Hey Pickle, "go MI", well as far as my intents. I would or should I say need to make some extra income. I was thinking if there is work out there I would rather do this than take a second job third shift. But I dont know if I can get enough work without advertising. I am not against growing this into a bigger "real" bussiness. I dont know if this system can be used for a commercial ap or not though. So I thought it best to grow into it slow. You know the ole walk before you can run addage. I do know in my area there is a market for a so called commercial plating shop. Especially anodizing. But I feel I would really be in over my head to try that at this point.

Meanwhile I think I am going to go ahead and make up some bussiness cards to hand out. I had gotten a tax number a while back when starting another deal, but that didnt work out, so I let the tax # expire. I may be able to reactivate it. A friend of mine is telling me that the tax number is kind of useless anyway in a service industry. That it only would help if I was selling a physical product. Not so sure, Im looking into that. I would think for now I will put off getting a DBA untill I see how much reaction I get from the cards and word of mouth. I do have a couple of friends that own bike shops and are willing to put up a display for me and talk it up. So for now I am making up a sample board with a place to put the bus cards on. We will see what happens.

Thanks guys,
Dave

Buy the way Pick, where in MI are ya? Im in the Thumb.

[pickleboy]

Buy the way Pick, where in MI are ya? Im in the Thumb.

i am in the ann arbor, ypsi area. i am also doing this sideline for now but who knows what will come of it.