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  • kickn
    replied
    Okay - i did warn you this was going to be a big thread

    I'm looking for some more help here on numbers - I need to figure out what size of chiller I need and if the pump i'm looking at is enough to agitate/circulate the solution.

    I'm working right now iwth a 230 litre tank (50 Gal UK) - and a flow rate of 50 L / min which would give a complete circulation cycle time of 4.5 mins. Does that seem enough?

    On the cooling the numbers i've worked out so far is based on the potential watts (I know this isn't accurate but only thing i kinda understand) of 800 W (40 A @ 20V) which will produce a rise in temp of approx 5 deg C every min. If i take the flow rate and * by the rise in temp then / by 14.4 I get 17 kW required in chiller size. Does this seem about right? I think its way high but don't know how to calculate it. Any help woudl be idea.

    On the chiller size and the fact that previously acquarium chillers have been mentioned would any of these suit?



    Thanks once again

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  • kickn
    replied
    Okay - version 3!



    The other question I have is in regards to degreasing - acidrain mentioned lacquer thinner - but what about commercial products? Does anyone know of any good dip degreaser that works well in this sort of process?

    This is where the idea of the dishwasher comes back to haunt me

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  • acidrain
    replied
    Yes, I thoroughly rinse into the tank I've just pulled parts from (I use a small garden sprayer... the kind you put water in and pump up and is hand held...~1/2 gal capacity), then dunk in a distilled water tank (or neutralizer tank after ano). I change the dunk tank after every step to avoid any cross contamination. I use a handheld PH meter to monitor the dunk tanks so that they can be neutralized before pouring them down the city waste line.
    The only considerable waste I generate is old cloudy nickel acetate sealer. I still have to figure out a safe way to dispose that.

    Anybody else have to deal with old sealer?

    Leave a comment:


  • kickn
    replied
    Tim: For me given the bead blasted finish - the etching helps to level out the finish and make it more matt. If I where to skip this then there is more of a chance of a 'shiny' spot on the part. Some of my parts are shipped from Asia so they are in a container with moisture for a few weeks so again - a chance of oxidation there.

    As for the cold seal tank - its a sealant solution that works at room temp vs. boiling point. Normally you should let the part sit for a week to 'age' and finish sealing but I've had great results steaming them for 10 mins just to close up the pours.

    Acidrain: So you rinse into the tank and then also dip afterwards? I was a bit worried about getting all the contamination out between steps so this would help - how often then do you change your dip tank?

    This is what I'm trying to avoid as I'll be spending some (for me) serious money on this to get it right. I'm even building a control panel with temp controllers and such to set everything at constant values. I'm struggling a bit for some parts but I'll get there. Again - I hope if I do it right that I can get it going first time around - instead of 10th

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  • acidrain
    replied
    I've been rinsing into my SP degreaser, etch, desmut, ano, etc. for months now, and I don't seem to be gaining any materials. As for my nickel based sealer, I typically have to add 1/2 gal or more replacement water after each run due to evaporation (full rolling boil).

    As for your grey tanks, I also fully submerge into a tank of water after each step, but I first rinse thoroughly into the previous tank to avoid a disposal problem.

    I'm using 1 cup of Bicarbinate of soda per 3 gal. water.
    First I rinse into the ano tank, then dunk in the soda water, then rinse into the soda tank, then dunk into fresh water where it remains suspended until ready for dying.

    I use the etch step extensively as most of my parts are previously ano'd.
    I also always desmut, no matter what the alloy is.

    I'm very impressed with your thoroughness and planning. I was not so smart, and ended up changing my entire process as I improved the sizes and methods of opperation. I'm sure with so much planning, you'll have excelent result right out of the gate!

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  • Tim Wiltse
    replied
    What is really the deal with the etch step? I have never used an etch step in my line. Granted 90% of my parts get polished. The other 10% are fresh off the machines and are mostly 6061 alloy. It's my understanding the etch is to make 100% sure your surface is clean of any old oxide right? In a case where parts are being blasted it would seem the etch could be skipped all together. Also what is the cold seal tank content? I have never come across a sealer that is used cold. When I first started anodizing I too used steam to seal but was hooked on a nickel sealer after the first time I used it.

    LAter,
    Tim

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  • sswee
    replied
    I'm still looking for a better degreaser, but at this time I scrub with heavy concentration of dishwashing detergent and dip in laquer thinner to pass water break test.
    I read somewhere and it's been working so far, a 1/2 pound baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) per gallon of RO for the neutralizer.

    Leave a comment:


  • kickn
    replied
    Thanks for that!

    Does anyone know of a good degreaser then that I can use in a dip fashon? Does a solvent work like that or do you need to scrub it?

    I'll change it to rinse into the tanks which i think will work fine for the heated etchant - but where its just the degreaser would the added water not be more then the evaporation?

    The heating of the anodising tank should be okay as I'm looking for a reversible chiller that heats as well as cools. This just leaves the dying tanks - for this I think any standard immersion heater would work fine as I don't think copper or such would contaminate the dye. I have found some coils that could be placed in the bottom of the tank which might work a treat. Independent cooling is needed as I would tend to do say a week of black - then onto another color the next week most of the time.

    Yes I was planning on using a common bus-bar - and move that between tanks. SS seems a good idea and something I could weld together to make sure there was never any connectivity problems. Since this is never in the solution I don't see it ever having a problem. The anode bar will be made of rivited aluminium bar on two sides of the tank with vertial risers and maybe some conductive grease between the connections (to avoide corrosion).

    For the neutralising bath - any suggestions on concentration/makeup?

    So...v2:




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  • acidrain
    replied
    Looks like a very complete system.
    I only have these comments...
    I have had no luck using simple green for any oil or grease removal. I use lacquer thinner, and I'm concidering a solvent still to recycle that solvent.
    Why the grey tanks? You should rinse into the tank you pulled the part from. This replaces eveporated water, and you end up with zero contaminated water that needs disposal.
    Finally, you asked about heaters... I use a 3500 watt hot water tank heater (~$12.00) to heat my heat exchanger that I use for my ano tank. The other tanks (cleaner, dyes, de-smut, etc.) are heated double boiler style to temperature with a propane stove and a pot large enough to put my five gal buckets into.
    I've thought about making a really large double boiler container that is heated by additional hot water heaters, is well insulated, and large enough to house all of my 140F items. That would be expensive to heat for the occasional anodizer like myslf, but may be the ticket for somebody working the system on a daily basis.

    Will you be racking to a common bus bar, and the whole bar pulled and transfered to the next station?
    I am using aluminum racking bars (1/2in. sq. bar with 1/4in. holes for the wire, intersected with 1/4in. SS thumb screws for wire attachment) but the continued corrosion has caused me to re-think that. I am going to go with SS bars, and the same holes/thumb screws configuration. I have had no adverse effects to any of my SS periferal hardware.

    OK, you asked... just my two cents worth!

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  • kickn
    replied
    Okay - here goes - my complete anodising process

    I've been trying to go over it and over it to see if I've missed anything and I probably have but here it is anyways.

    There are a couple of things to note - the first is that there will be a separatin between the mechanical (white box's) and anodising (blue box's) of up to a week. I am hoping that this won't be an issue as the etching should take care of any oxidation.

    Each tank will be polyethylene or PVC depending (http://www.water-tanks.net/newagricultual.htm for example). I still need to find all the equipment but I'm planning on using ceramic submersible heaters linked to temperature relays for each heated tank. The only aggitation I have is with the anosing tank - shoudl the dye be agitated and how? I've chosen steam seal as I can pick up a steam oven very cheap and have had fantastic results so far with it - taking the parts out hot means they try without film.

    For water my plan is a reverse osmosis system with grey and pure water storage tanks. I haven't allowed for any dip tanks in conjunction with the spray ones - should I?

    I would really appreciate your feed back and thoughts on this - I know its a lot of what we already talked about but I just want to make sure I have everything. Thanks!

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  • kickn
    replied
    Okay - current challenge is finding a supplier for some 300 watt Ceramic Heaters or something similar - any ideas where i might get these in the UK? Do they have an industrial name?

    THanks,

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  • acidrain
    replied
    Yes, I have that same problem. When it happens, after the beadblast I go back and etch, then de-smut. Sometimes I have to do it a couple times before the water marks come out.
    I'm trying to do a better job of air-blowing, then towel drying all water before it has a chance to dry, but it seems it sometimes happens.

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  • kickn
    replied
    I was wondering if a conveyor bead blaster (if I can find one used and cheap enough) would do the trick. I'm still struggling to get the even finish I want every time.

    There is another thing I seem to have an issue with and was wondering if there was a quick cure for. I am etching, desmuting, rinsing and drying before blasting but when drying I sometimes get water stanes on it. I use pure water to rinse with and force-air dry the part but because its such a large area I sometimes still get marks - any ideas?

    These marks are watermark/residue type things.

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  • acidrain
    replied
    I had the same problems with streaked/blotchy beadblast pattern.
    I cured it by changing my blast medium to medium sized glass beads, lowered my pressure to 60psi, and held the nozzle at least 4 inches away from the part. I use a back and forth pattern, and move fairly quickly for just a dusting... no overlapping, back and forth one way, then the other way for me. My parts come out perfect everytime now.
    BTW, I always fully etch and desmut to a completely blemish-free surface first, then beadblast, then SP degrease just before ano.

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  • kickn
    replied
    I think the darker smaller parts where due to surface temp and seemed to have settled out as I got my agitation back up. Its a balancing act right now until i can get a chiller (running with no cooling @ 12 - 20A)

    The beadblasting is whats bugging me most - i have been etching after blasting in some tests and it seems to help but still not perfect. it is a large surface area so is hard anyways. I'm going to try 50psi tomorrow and see if that helps.

    Looking at that link was nicely reassuring as its very similar to what I have set up right now - a horizontal bar with vertical bars coming off of it. I think I would probably keep this configuration anyways. I have found some great agricultural plastic tanks that have nice straight walls which will be perfect.

    Thanks again - i'll see how the beadblasting goes tomorrow.

    J

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