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  • Flash Copper over Flash Copper

    30 Minutes in Flash copper tank(Looks good), Buff with Blue Compound, Degrease, back in Flash Copper tank for 30 minutes. No Change. 1.Does degreaser remove Buffing Compound? 2.Can I Flash Copper over Flash Copper?
    Bruce Houghton

  • #2
    Re: Flash Copper over Flash Copper

    Originally posted by bhought View Post
    30 Minutes in Flash copper tank(Looks good), Buff with Blue Compound, Degrease, back in Flash Copper tank for 30 minutes. No Change. 1.Does degreaser remove Buffing Compound? 2.Can I Flash Copper over Flash Copper?
    Bruce Houghton
    Bruce;
    The Degreaser should remove the Buffing Compound, but for cheap insurance, I use Acetone to remove the compound, then go into the Degreaser to clean off the acetone..
    Doing a second Flash Copper over a smooth and shiny Flash Copper is just adding copper thickness.. Is there a reason to do a second coat? Are you "building" the copper plate? Like filling pits, imperfections, etc.? If you plan to do Nickel over the Copper, I believe the Copper needs to be a certain thickness (I'm not 100% positive on this.. don't have the book handy), but you can check on "build" thickness if you "mic" the bare part of the hanging wire and compare it to the plated area of the hanging wire. I've read that "Flash" copper builds faster than "Bright" copper, but "Flash" is not as "fine grained" as the "Bright"..
    Charles

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    • #3
      Re: Flash Copper over Flash Copper

      I like the idea of Acetone. I will be doing that....And YES, since I'm doing very old parts from a very old motorcycle, I am trying to "Build" a good smooth Copper base before Copy Chrome. I've just been reading that it might be better to use Acid Copper for filling in scratches and fixing dents(Solder)..... I realy appreciate your thoughts, Thank you.
      Bruce Houghton
      PS.It's taken me a long time to get this far. Hopefully things will start going smoother.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Flash Copper over Flash Copper

        Originally posted by bhought View Post
        I like the idea of Acetone. I will be doing that....And YES, since I'm doing very old parts from a very old motorcycle, I am trying to "Build" a good smooth Copper base before Copy Chrome. I've just been reading that it might be better to use Acid Copper for filling in scratches and fixing dents(Solder)..... I realy appreciate your thoughts, Thank you.
        Bruce Houghton
        PS.It's taken me a long time to get this far. Hopefully things will start going smoother.
        Bruce H;
        I can relate to having taken a long time.. Plating is a steep learning curve, but it's also a long flat one.. if that makes sense..
        On Building The Plate.. Not having done it (but it is in my future), I've read that one should(?) sand down the build plate so it doesn't get too thick.. You just want the pits/scratches, etc. filled.. Seems I read something about the "too thick" plate having a higher risk of peeling off.. I would query someone who knows about this stuff, just to be sure.. And not having too thick of a plate makes sense on small motorcycle parts..
        What brand of bike are you working on? Years ago, I had (at one time) four Harleys (and eight other bikes!).. the '50 EL Hydra-Glide Dresser I bought on my 16th birthday, the '53 Engined/'58 Swing-Arm Frame Duo-Glide Dresser I built to replace the '50 after some SOB stole it.. a '46 Knucklehead that I built to race on "Scrambles" tracks and a 1939 Knuckle "Chopper" that had 110 Inches when I finished "waving my magic wrenches" over it.. It literally idled at 70mph.. would smoke the rear all the way thru third (and "bark" fourth!) and, if the moon was in the right phase, I could pull an 18" "Wheelie"... did that in front of a Motor Officer after he asked me if I wanted to race against his FLH Electra-Glide.. I beat him by three bike lengths ;-}
        Charles

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        • #5
          Re: Flash Copper over Flash Copper

          Sounds like we are pretty much the same age(1942). The bike, it's a 57 Triumph Tiger 110. Same as I had in High School. I'm also building a 1932 Ford 3 Window Coup(I went from no toys to too many toys it seems).....My latest situation, I put down another coat of Flash Copper, started to sand it, and noticed that it was peeling slightly. No big deal, but it caused me to go "Hmmmm"....Appreciated your interest. Thanks
          Bruce houghton
          PS.Acetone really cleans up the part after Buffing it with "Black"..

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Flash Copper over Flash Copper

            Originally posted by bhought View Post
            Sounds like we are pretty much the same age(1942). The bike, it's a 57 Triumph Tiger 110. Same as I had in High School. I'm also building a 1932 Ford 3 Window Coup(I went from no toys to too many toys it seems).....My latest situation, I put down another coat of Flash Copper, started to sand it, and noticed that it was peeling slightly. No big deal, but it caused me to go "Hmmmm"....Appreciated your interest. Thanks
            Bruce houghton
            PS.Acetone really cleans up the part after Buffing it with "Black"..
            Bruce;
            I'm a "Boomer".. four years your junior. I knew a guy in Junior High who had a Tiger.. and another guy had a chop-top '49 Merc, full custom.. This was in '61-'62 when the lucky kids could get a DL at age fourteen I was pedaling a Lambretta 125 in Jr Hi. The August before I started high school, I bought the Hawg (helluva leap from 125cc to 1200cc-- 5hp to 55hp)
            With regards to "Toys".. Oh Yeah!.. As I noted, I had twelve motorcycles.. I broke my neck racing (June Friday 13th, 1973) so, I sold nine bikes.. kept the Z-50 Mini-Trail Honda "Pit Bike", the 350cc 165mph GP RoadRacer and the 250cc Bultaco I was Flat-Tracking when that damn haybale in front of a fence post hit me at 100 miles per hour!.. Now I have a dozen cars ;-} My "Baby" is a 1953 Jaguar XK120 DropHead Coupe.. one of 1471 built in LHD (294 were built in RHD). I bought it when I was a poor starving college student for $300... and I'm the Second Owner! That said, is there any such thing as "too many" toys? I know for a fact that the major problem is "Not Enough Space"! (wife INSISTS that freshly pained and plated parts CANNOT be stored in the unused center of our King Size Bed!)
            Is your "Deuce" a real '32? I did the resto work on a fellow's '32 Five Window that he and his Dad built when he was in high school in the late '50's.. A Genuine '50's Hot-Rod and he kept it all these years.. complete with a "hotted-up" Flathead mill, dual Stromberg 95's (no flooding issues), Aluminum heads, intake (Edlebrock, I believe), Ford Truck transmission (bulletproof!) and '40's Ford "Juice Brakes" that they used 1/4" copper tubing for the brake lines.(commonly used in west Texas for "Swamp Box Coolers") Needless to say, I made all new steel lines!
            On the second coat copper peeling.. It is a big deal.. no adhesion for some reason.. If the copper won't bond to copper, you will play hell getting anything else to stick to it.. It's probably a "cleaning" issue (it seems 90% of plating issues are cleaning related).. Always do a Water Break Test, to be sure.
            Shoot a pic of your "Hot-Rod", if ya get a chance..
            Charles

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            • #7
              Re: Flash Copper over Flash Copper

              You are right about the cleaning(Peeling)...The part did not pass the "Bead Test". I cleaned it again with acetone, turned up the heat with the "Caswell Degreaser", 15 minute soak, seemed better.. Back in the tank, no peeling now....It seems that my problem is with the part I am working on. It's the Head Light Bezel(chromed). I de-chromed it using reverse electroplating(wife stainless steel kitchen knives), but I don't think I stripped it completely. I read somewhere that most of the work is in prep, and using the coarses stuff during the buffing process should be manditory. I'm out buying a bigger chuck of the coarse stuff right now....Interest about you Racing experience. Me to, I raced a BSA Gold Star. I remember the afternoon when a 350 Perrelli beat me on a road course. He would aways catch me at the end of the long straight away. It had a six speed Gear Box. Sounded like a Formula 1 Car....Anyway, I'm still trying to get up the nerve to try Copy Chome. Tomorrow morning maybe...
              Bruce Houghton

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              • #8
                Re: Flash Copper over Flash Copper

                I went back and looked at the first part that I had Flash Coppered. It had some very patchy peeling spots also...The only thing I can think of, is my fingers. Q.Should I wear gloves when handling parts out of the de-greaser?
                Bruce Houghton

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Flash Copper over Flash Copper

                  Originally posted by bhought View Post
                  I went back and looked at the first part that I had Flash Coppered. It had some very patchy peeling spots also...The only thing I can think of, is my fingers. Q.Should I wear gloves when handling parts out of the de-greaser?
                  Bruce Houghton
                  Bruce H;
                  Should You Wear Gloves Oh Hell Yeah!!
                  Here is what I do.. Since a lot of my parts are greasy, dirty, grungy, etc. I wash them in my parts washer (kerosene), then they get a 20 min. (or longer) "bath" in the SP Degreaser.. after a double rinse and 100% dead dry (I use a "dedicated for shop use only" Excalibur Food Dehydrator), I sandblast the parts.. From the moment I start sandblasting, that is the LAST TIME the parts are touched by human hands (or mine!).. I use heavy, black rubber gloves from the beginning of the sandblasting, then I blow-off the excess sand and dust, then it's into a second pot of SP Degreaser (since the first one has grease in it!), another double rinse & drying and then I start my "Plating Steps" for whatever bath I'm using (CopyCad, Nickel, Electroless Nickel, etc.
                  After the last double rinse and drying step, I put on the Blue (or Purple) Nitryl Gloves. (folks are now saying that even the "residue" on latex gloves can cause plating issues..) My grubby fingers NEVER touch the part or pieces again until AFTER the last Drying Step of the last process.. Even then, I generally put my parts and pieces into a Ziploc Freezer Baggie as soon as possible.. Just-in-case!
                  Charles

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Flash Copper over Flash Copper

                    [/QUOTE]
                    Originally posted by bhought View Post
                    I like the idea of Acetone. I will be doing that....And YES, since I'm doing very old parts from a very old motorcycle, I am trying to "Build" a good smooth Copper base before Copy Chrome. I've just been reading that it might be better to use Acid Copper for filling in scratches and fixing dents(Solder)..... I realy appreciate your thoughts, Thank you.
                    Bruce Houghton
                    PS.It's taken me a long time to get this far. Hopefully things will start going smoother.
                    Hi Bruce, I just completed several interior and engine bay parts for a '55 Chevy as well as a few pieces for my project bikes. Here is what I have learned re: making old pitted sctratched parts look new: First (and this is a biggie) make SURE your part is steel and not pot-metal - VERY different initial procedures. Assuming the part is steel and you are filling small imperfections and your part is thoroughly cleaned and break-water tested; flash copper for the strike coat followed immediately by a distilled water rinse over the flash tank and immersion in the acid (bright) copper for build-up. After a couple of hrs remove, rinse and sand the part smooth or to the point you are about to break through the copper, and if the pits are not filled - repeat in the acid copper. I repeat the sanding-acid tank-sanding until my part has all imperfections removed. If base metal gets exposed at any point I redo the flash copper and back into the acid copper. Once the part is where I want it I buff with brown, clean to the point pass the w/b test and place into the nickle, followed by chrome tanks or which ever plate is your next step. Been working well for me.
                    By the way, I have just about completed a Harley '49 WL bobber with all parts including bolts washers etc either oem or nos, with exception of the front forks and handle bars. I also have a 1943 WLC (Canadian military bike by HD), on the go as well as a more modern custom chopper; Santee rigid with '93 Dyna motor and 200mm rear tire, ect, ect. Lots of fun.
                    Hope this helps:
                    Dave

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Flash Copper over Flash Copper

                      I'm having a hard time here. I just tryed Copy Chrome over Flash Copper. Power(Amps) is exactly 1/2 for Copy Crhome verses Flash Copy(In the Book). Left the part in for 60 minutes. Can still see the Flash Copper under the Copy Chrome. Now the books says "Strip the Plate Off, or Flash Copper, then Re-Plate". Q.Can I Flash Copper over Copy Chrome?
                      Bruce Houghton
                      PS. I think I will setup a tank of Acid Copper.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Flash Copper over Flash Copper

                        I just tried Copy Chrome..1/2 Power(Amps) than Flash Copper(Book), in for 60 minutes, not good..Can still see the Flash Copper under the Copy Chrome, very spotty. Now the book says "Strip off Plate, or plate with Flash Copper, and Re-Plate". Q can you Flash Copper over Copy Chrome?
                        Bruce Houghton
                        PS.I think I will set up an Acid Copper Tank......

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Flash Copper over Flash Copper

                          Originally posted by bhought View Post
                          I just tried Copy Chrome..1/2 Power(Amps) than Flash Copper(Book), in for 60 minutes, not good..Can still see the Flash Copper under the Copy Chrome, very spotty. Now the book says "Strip off Plate, or plate with Flash Copper, and Re-Plate". Q can you Flash Copper over Copy Chrome?
                          Bruce Houghton
                          PS.I think I will set up an Acid Copper Tank......
                          I don't use the Copy Chrome, so I have no real world experience with it.. That said, any time a plating method fails, it's best to strip the part back to base metal and start over.. One never really knows "where" the fault was created.. at the metal to first plate line? Or the first plate to the second/finish plate line.. Too many variables to try to mess with..
                          Chalk it up to part of the learning curve.. I know I cannot EVEN begin to tell you how many times I stripped parts and reapplied either Zinc or Nickel (never got the Nickel peeling issues sorted [it was a practice piece of one inch diameter by 5" length of copper tubing], so I'm still climbing the curve on that one!) This is why it's strongly suggested to learn/practice of scrap items first!
                          I know this is no help.. but keep working at it.. document every step in detail (I hate paperwork!), sometimes it helps, after the fact, to "see" what you did wrong.. or what you didn't do right (there is a difference)..
                          Hang in there ;-}
                          Charles

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