Flash Copper Problem

[gwjohnso]

I plated three zincated aluminum items last night with flash copper. They came out of the bath dull but covered well with copper after 45 minutes. I polished the parts to my desired shine before I zincated and flash copper. When I try to buff the copper to a bright shine with white and loose cotton, I buff through the copper before I get a good shine. So, on one of my pieces I did not buff after the copper and went straight to the copy chrome. Plated for 60 minutes. Copy chrome did not throw thoroughly over top of piece and while buffing the copy chrome I went through to copper and to aluminum on some areas. So, I degrease the part, zincated the bare aluminum spots and flash coppered again. After 20 minutes I removed the part only to descover bright shiny copper where the copy chrome was left underneath and dull where I had buffed through the copy chrome to the copper and aluminum. What is up with that? Is the zincate making the flash copper dull? Do I need to strike with nickel prior to flash copper on these parts? Flashing with copper is suppose to be fine on zincated aluminum right? I wanted to post this problem on the forum as to maybe get some feedback from other users having this problem. I have opened several tech. support tickets and thought this may work better.

[mcaswell]

Hello:

I've re-opened that call on PRS. Please copy and paste your whole message into the system and our support tech will provide some more tips.

When we don't get a response on a support ticket for a few weeks, we assume the problem is fixed. Sorry that it isn't.

We'll get this sorted out for you.

[gwjohnso]

I do not want to get in a contest about who dropped the support ball. I just want some advice from someone who may have experience with these type of results with my configuration and can diagnose my problem. I will eventually figure it out using the manual and trying different configurations. I thought you professionals could tell me right off what the problem is. You guys said the flash copper would correct the problem, so I purchased that kit and have had no better results. Now I am finding out I do not need it. I just thought I could save some time and get resolution on this since I have had this problem now for about a month with very little or no success using these products. I think that your customers can benefit from seeing the troubleshooting process on this forum since there is no a way to see past problem resolutions with your tech support process.

[gwjohnso]

Flash Copper Problem

I would just like to know that if I polish my part before I flash copper, is buffing the copper necessary before I Copy Chrome plate the part and then buff the Copy Chrome. I have flash coppered many parts and get the same flat dull finish of copper which is difficult to buff to a high shine. The Copy Chrome seems to buff up nicely, but I do have to buff it every time.

[mcaswell]

If the flash copper is coming out of the tank bright and shiny, then there's little need to polish it. If it's coming out dull and flat, and you want your final Copy Chromed piece looking bright and shiny, then yes, you'll need to polish the copper. Copper is very soft, so you don't need a real aggressive polishing technique to bring the shine up.

I thought we had resolved the flash copper issue by adding another anode to your tank?

[gwjohnso]

Flash Copper Problem

The additional anode was for the copy chrome. I have not had a problem with coverage with the flash copper. I just had a problem with a dull flat finish with the flash copper. I flashed some copper over copy chrome yesterday and got the same flat dull finish when removing from the bath. I was able to buff to a shine by buffing very carefully with loose cotton and white compound.

[JJGunShop]

Re: Flash Copper Problem

I plated three zincated aluminum items last night with flash copper. They came out of the bath dull but covered well with copper after 45 minutes. I polished the parts to my desired shine before I zincated and flash copper. When I try to buff the copper to a bright shine with white and loose cotton, I buff through the copper before I get a good shine. So, on one of my pieces I did not buff after the copper and went straight to the copy chrome. Plated for 60 minutes. Copy chrome did not throw thoroughly over top of piece and while buffing the copy chrome I went through to copper and to aluminum on some areas. So, I degrease the part, zincated the bare aluminum spots and flash coppered again. After 20 minutes I removed the part only to descover bright shiny copper where the copy chrome was left underneath and dull where I had buffed through the copy chrome to the copper and aluminum. What is up with that? Is the zincate making the flash copper dull? Do I need to strike with nickel prior to flash copper on these parts? Flashing with copper is suppose to be fine on zincated aluminum right? I wanted to post this problem on the forum as to maybe get some feedback from other users having this problem. I have opened several tech. support tickets and thought this may work better.

I am having the same similar problem except I am not zincating aluminum. I am brush plating the flash copy directly on steel and it is coming out the same as you describe except for one additional problem. When I nickel or copy chrome over the dark flash copper I wash the piece with brillo and everytime not only does the nickel plate disappear so does the copper. I have copper plated with brushed on copper from another company than plated with nickel and all seems well. I was going to contact caswell directly by phone but I opted to try and heat the solution first and the piece to try again seeing if there would be a difference. until then any feed back would be greatly appreciated. WHAT DOES GIVE HERE?

[mcaswell]

It's likely a surface prep problem or not a thick enough layer of plating. Flash Copper will stick like glue onto steel.

Please call us or log a call in PRS so we can help.

[gwjohnso]

Flash Copper Problem

I have recently been plating my zincated aluminum with Copy Chrome with success. I am using 3 anodes spaced around a 4gal. porcellan tank. My biggest problem was the CC not covering all of my pieces crevices and indentions, there would be a dark patch where the CC did not throw well. We first thought the problem was that the pieces were pot metal and tried the flash copper. The problem with the flash copper I beleive is that the solution does not have the chemicals added to make a bright finish. I did very carefully buff a part that had been flashed to a shiny finish, but it still did not have a clear bright finish like you would get buffing a piece of solid copper. I would probably guess that the bright acid copper is more for building up a thick layer of bright copper that could then be buffed to a brilliant shine. The Flash Copper is for getting bondage over material that you cannot plate. I do think that it is not ideal for buffing to a bright shiny finish. That is my opinion from my experience so far. Hope this helps some.

[dadkar2]

Flash Copper

I want to give you some thoughts on the Flash Copper. This is an award-winning formulation, which I have found to work better than acid copper—to the point where I have retired my acid copper tank. I have been using it for almost 1 year now, plated over 100 parts—each of which has at least 4 passes through the tank. I restore rusted, pitted steel and brass antique clock parts and when I am done they look like new, with a mirror-like luster. Here are some tips. Be careful of the current. Stay under 60mA/sq in or you will get a dull finish. The manufacturer of this stuff indicates that lead, cyanide and organic compounds will contaminate the solution, so avoid them. Be sure to clean parts thoroughly first (see my posting under SP Degreaser). You must pass the waterbreak test. A successful waterbreak test means that, immediately after a rinse, the part looks like you painted the water on—no breaks, beading, etc. and complete water coverage. Establishing a successful cleaning process is the single most important thing you can do for your plating. Consider ultrasonic cleaning or electrocleaning—whatever it takes to pass the waterbreak. Just make sure it’s clean. Maintain a ratio between area of the anodes and the article of 1.5:1. Try plating for 35-45 minutes in the flash copper, then lightly wet sand with 600 paper, then replate, and repeat. Build up to 3 coats of copper this way, then buff very lightly with white compound, then with red rouge. Flash copper will buff beautifully but you must get enough of it on. This is no different than with any plating. I have exhausted 2 sets of anodes and my first solution is still performing like the day I mixed it. ---Ken

[bhhodges]

proper cleaning

whatever base your plating too dosent really matter except for maybe potmetal. what has improved my copper and nickel plating by far is proper cleaning of the base without a doubt. i use electrocleaner in a stainless steel stock pot with the stock pot being the anode and this way i can clean each item i plate 360 degrees all the way around instead of maybe an anode in the front and back or whatever. since i changed to doing this i never have falied a water breat test ever. have i had bad results in the plating tank?? i sure have---but not that many ----and the ones i have had can be traced back to usually to much voltage or amperage while plating, so dont blame a new batch of plating solution, my opinion would be to look at proper prep and cleaning.

bill

[dadkar2]

Plating with Copper Flash (Alkaline Copper)

Bill's approach mirrors mine exactly. Cleaning is everything. The most important thing is passing the waterbreak test.

Ken

[wayzata]

Re: Flash Copper Problem

Ken,

Thank's for your good information on the flash copper. Everything you said sounds like good stuff. I am getting ready to order the flash copper material from Caswell for the first time, so your advice is very timely.

Can I ask how you determine if you have under 60ma/sq.in.? What kind of reostat set up are you using? Do you use a six vlt system to plate with? Is the copper a little more forgiving than the copy chrome?

Phil