Chrome powder dulls with clear pleas help!!!!!!

[scline74]

I have recently purchased the reflectra 525 chrome and the HFSD clear from caswells when apply and bake the chrome at 400 for 15 min the finish is beautiful but when i apply the hfsd clear at 400 for 15 the finish dulls dramatically . What is the problem ! Please help

[Fireblade]

The problem.....Nothing. You are doing it correctly, that is just the nature of the beast. My take on it is this, The chrome powder reflects light differently than chrome or polished aluminum does, so when you put the clear on, it absorbs the light reflecting capabilities it had when the clear was non-existant. Got me? Kinda confused myself, but basically I think the chrome powder has aluminum in it, and this aluminum no matter how smooth a finish is not going to reflect the same amount of light thanthe real stuff will. I have a pic posted in the album, ALBUM is listed at top of the webpage, that shows a chrome with clear on it, still looks good, but not like it was without. So, it is not you, llol

[tomg552001]

Yep, no problem at all. "Chrome" powder with clear coat basically turns out to be a shiny silver, no matter what you do, or so it seems :P

[duke]

if you are chrome p/cing a "widget" that is for interior use, do you have to clear coat it?
cheers

[tomg552001]

If you dont't clear coat a chrome powder it will look like **** after a while.

[duke]

xxxx can't win for losing.
cheers

[non-stick]

if dfrjr has posted a pic and has had success with it, no doubt he will chime in and advise you how he got to that level. Sometimes we don't always check the board everyday (myself included). I suggest a brief "cooling off" period for you my friend and give people here a little time. Posts last forever here and no doubt eventually you will have your answer. THIS IS NOT PRODUCT SUPPORT. I don't type in caps to box your ears about the matter.... but this is not an "instant messanger" service. If you have a problem with something and need an immediate explanation, then the Caswell phone is always open to you. If perhaps you've done something that wasn't quite "by the book" and perhaps you need some help, then we are ALL here for you. Chill out,relax,think things over. Just because "others" in here have not had luck with a product, does not mean that it isn't a viable product,k? If I find out through watching everything that somebody has mis-represented thier picture and called it reflectra only to post a pic.... guess what happens?*bip*.... I gotta erase the picture and use that stupid moderator button that I hate using. Then who's the bad guy? me, of course. Feathers get ruffled, attitudes flare..... frogs rain from the heavens.... it's a sign of the apocylypse, I assure you.

All's I can say is this...... take it easy for a moment on the cussing. There's no point in it and it's a sign of foolishness on part of a person whom I know is a very smart individual (that's the only warning I will give you on that one. I understand and comprehend and have been there a million times moreso than you, so this one slides. You have my word). I know tempers flare and things may have been overloooked. You spent your money with a company that is an ace, visit a forum full of people who are top-notch and have a problem that is extremely minor. Bear with it and be patient. Rushing through something gets you nowhere. Keep your eye on this thread for the coater to respond his process and perhaps you may just find yourself overlooking something and all will be right in the world again. That's the best I can tell you right now until I know more, bud....... Russ

[non-stick]

I just read the entire thread and I give the same warning to all of you. We're extremely smart people and have clever ways of explaining our disgust at a great number of things besides using the "*$^%^**&^$%" symbols and typing out ****, or whatever that is. First,last, and ONLY warning I'll give you. This isn't the "boys" club of coating even though I myself use that language on a one-to-one basis. The last thing I need is the board owner keeping an eye on us and not letting everybody "do thier thing" in here. We've got a good slack atmosphere and I'd like to keep it that way. . I assure you.... you'd rather have me "moderate" it this way as opposed to that big silvery looking name in the upper left hand corner come in and clear house,lol. The entire post stays for benefit of the product, no recourse on anybody who's posted up until this point ( I gave the "warning" let it stand at that) and if nobody minds..... move the hockey net back into the street so we can get back to playing........ ""GAME ON!!!!!!!!""...... Russ

[Fireblade]

I have something to add to this post as well. Scline74, if you go back and read the many posts about chrome powder, whether the people bought it from here or not, the end result is always the same when using the clear. Hemi-T did some parts he owns in the Reflectra, but he did not clear, maybe you want to check with him and see what he has found it with it. How is it holding up? etc... I have some parts lying around my shop that have no clear on them, I left them this way, just to see if they turn colors. I think the aluminum, again if I am right on this, absorbs moisture or oils from the atmosphere or people touching them. Hence the reason it turns a dull primer color. One piece I have, actually a motorcycle wheel, appears to be more hazy than the day I sprayed it, almost a year ago. The other pieces, which are a different chrome powder, seem to appear the way I sprayed them, about 10 months ago. I can say one thing on any subject you may have, LOOK BACK IN THE PAGES! The question you have may of been answered numerous times before, and may help you make a better judgment of what you may want to do. I am not yelling or downgrading you, just bringing it to your attention. Another thing, I may be wrong with this too, but the guy who sprayed those Air intake tubes, I THINK, said they had no clear on them. Maybe he will chime in and say, the post above the pic mentions nothing about a clearcoat.

[duke]

cheers

[non-stick]

Duke.... stop dwelling on the past and SHOOT THE PUCK ALREADY!!!!!!!!! lol.... wait, car coming. *watches it zoom by*...ok, Let's play!

[non-stick]

I dunno.... there's one "chrome" I've seen in the past that is simply breathtaking but I've never had to put a clear on it. Perhaps *cough* you may see it in the future as well I say no more....

[drfjr1976]

I've had some decent results with chrome powder. I have found my best results with curing at lower temp for a longer time. I than let it cool down very slowly, I'll crack the door on the oven and drop the temp down to around the 150 for about 5-8 minutes, than I'll turn the heat off and let it finish cooling. Once it is completely cooled, I wipe the part down, place it back in the oven to slowly bring it back up in temp. Coat the part, the cure at the same temp and time I did with the chrome. YES, it will dull some when the clear is added, but not near as much as an uncleared part will.
I think the chrome powder(as mentioned before) has aluminum in it and will tarnish just like a polished aluminum part will over time. Just a lot faster.

[scline74]

First off I do apologize for what I wrote in my second post. I would just like to point out that in this link you will see that caswell Forum Moderator says that the picturesare of his product http://www.caswellplating.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=212

The pictures were of our chrome powder coat with the clear powder applied.

See http://www.caswellplating.com/powder/powder_colors.html

Nice to see new faces on this board.

. When I contacted him he said that he was not an avid powder coater but he knew of the problem but said there was an solution but didnt know what it was? All I really want to know is there a way to have the smae outcome as the intake tubes (that they clearly say is the Caswell product with the clear applied) . Thats it if someone knows of a way maybe a diffrent curing process or perhaps a diffrent product Please let me know! Thank you and again I apologize. [email protected][/u]

[non-stick]

OK.... this clears things up now. My apologies to drfjr for working under the assumption that it was his picture in the album of which we were all speaking of. By the way..... sound advice coming from Drfjr.

Scline, yes, that is a Caswell product and yes, those results are a realistic value to what you should expect from such. If you look in the post that you highlighted.... even Caswell states (and I totally back him up on this one) it is not a "true" replacement for chrome. Moreover.... a "chrome" paint (powder in this case ) that is a reasonable solution to a whole plating process. Let me state CLEARLY that.... powdercoating will never be a substitute for actual chrome. Nor is plating a substitute for liquid coatings.... liquid not a substitute for powders.....etc and so on. The point is this. Any one particular coating is not the pinnacle of the industry or hobby. Yes, I even freely admit that powder has it's losses in quite a few areas as well. Take for example your "chrome" dilemma. At BEST it is still just a plastic coating. So... with that in mind, let's try to resolve your problem now,ok?

Chrome or ANY other heavily pigmented powder should be treated with extra caution. This holds true for bright reds, lime greens, and the like. If my post from long ago was read (even I forget where it is by now) any coating is comprised of 100% making a whole. Sometimes we need to make slight concessions when we want something unique in the formulation. If you want abrasion resistance more than anything else, we must give up other characteristics in that "100%" formulae. It's a known fact that anything chemically resistive is a very soft coating and not very pretty. You may find one or two suitable hues out there that you like, but traditionally they are basic colours. Likewise with anything really pretty. Aesthetic colours have no abrasion resistance and are difficult to work with do to the fact with heavy pigmentation such as your "chrome". Chip resistance? Sure, you can have that.... but you'll lose ground on UV abilities and possibly application technique. Do you catch my drift now? THIS is the "why" of the situation. Very few people remember why things are the way they are and it's a basic fundamental of your hobby. Learn "why" things are the way they are and the how takes care of itself.

For your particular dilemma. Strip the part. Get all of that old coating off and start from scratch. We've all done it (and I still do, truth be known) when there's been a dilemma. It's the nature of the beast that you join us in this "club" of learning. Call it your initiation if you will,lol.
Good... we have a nice solid foundation now. I'm going to focus on the re-application of powder now as opposed to the nuances of prep as I'm just going to assume you have that process under control by now (read other threads here just to be sure you don't miss any steps,k?). Good.....

In my experience, I've found it best to stand a good distance away from my part when coating. The goal here is to get all of that "very fine" particulate onto the part as opposed to what one would normally do in the case of say, a standard matte black. I'm talking a good 14-16 inches away from tip of gun to substrate at least. What this will do for you is assure application of only the "best" part of the powder. The goal here is to have it all look very uniform and much like a fresh "white metal" sandblast. Smooth, even,no lumps, no discoloration,etc. You get the idea now. Keep going until it's completely coated and you can see no metal shining back at you from under the coating. Yes, I know that's extremely tough to do with a coating that looks like fresh sandblast metal... but as stated before, special coatings, special circumstances. Now.... bake your part on the LOW cure cycle specifications to get a nice good flow. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong here, but my experience tells me 375 for 20-25 minutes PMT is appropriate. At that time.... you'll want to turn your heat down to approx 150F and "crack" the oven door. The goal here is to cool the part down, but not "shock" the coating itself. Let it set there for a good half hour, don't rush! After that time frame.... turn the oven off and take your part out. Let it cool for a while. Again.... stunning results take more intricate measures. This is going to last for years, so the application time is but a mere blink of the eye.
When the part is cooled, wipe it down with a brand new lint free soft cloth with denatured alcohol on it. The goal here is to eliminate any outside element of oxidation and give you the best surface available for the clear to adhere to. It is at this point that you will apply your clear topcoat and bake yet once again at 375F for 20-25 minutes. Repeat the same cool down process. Let it "settle" as a coating. I have no doubt you will get some "minor" dulling but nothing to get in a twist about. What you should have at this point is a good cross-link of both coatings and an appealing finish that you can be happy with. Again... I need to be very clear about this. Once you start this process, you must finish it! No bake of initial coat and then wait 3 days before the wipedown or some such. It will take a little longer than usual than most coatings but I'll repeat myself yet once again. Special coatings take special procedures! Take your time, don't rush, but have resolve in the matter once you start. IT WILL happen for you, I assure you. If you (or any of you for that fact) have any problems that you can't overcome and you either A) don't see the answer here, or B) find it unbearable to deal with it and you want a mor personalized answer.... I have a little e-mail button there for a reason! Use it! That's sort-of what I'm here for. I've spoken with many, if not most of you on the phone and have no doubt answered a ton of questions before. I'll no doubt do it again and don't mind it one bit. (call me at 3 in the morning and I'm gonna scream at you though,lol).

I hope this helps get you "back on track" with things and solves your problems. If it doesn't, we go back to the proverbial drawing board and take it step by step until you get it right. There's no question in that. We're here for each other and will never abandon one of our own in this manner. Aftar all.... we're in it together as a group, aren't we? Scline's dilemma today may just be your learning tool for tomorrow and vice versa. Learn from us as we learn from you and we all advance in out abilities. Thank you for clearing up things as to what you were referring to as it helped the confusion greatly. I anticipate and look forard to your results. Hope that helped...... Russ