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    Guest started a topic Helpful Tip : FISH EYES OR WHATEVER

    Helpful Tip : FISH EYES OR WHATEVER

    Here i found this and i would like to pass it on the every one:
    When there are problems in the paint finish, all direction is often lost on how to troubleshoot. Whether you have fish eyes (moon craters), hairs, lint, specks, or bumps, take your time. You must keep notes during any type of troubleshooting.
    Start with coating test panels. These test panels must not be homemade from metal at your manufacturing location, but from an outside source which makes special test and sample panels. You can never eliminate the possibility the problem could be your metal! These test panels are now going to be exposed to each and every step in your finishing system, one step at a time. Remember, keep notes.

    Start by coating your first panel at the spray booth. Write a number, letter, or a date, in the powder on the panel before it is cured in the oven. This type of a note is permanent and will eliminate panel mix-up. If the panel looks OK, then the problem is not in the spray booth, equipment, or powder.

    Now back up another step in your finishing process. This could be the final rinse step in the washer. Dip a new test panel into the rinse tank of the washer, and dry it in your dry-off oven, coat it, mark it, and cure it. Now, how does it look? If OK then back up another step until the problem is found and corrected.

    One final note, "Silicon" in a lubricant form and in a quantity as little as one part per million, will cause fish eyes (moon craters). It will not wash off in the washer but degreasing is better. It can come from a new wonder if being used in your air compressor. It also can come from the welding equipment where the nozzles are now being cleaned with a new anti-clog spray. The most amazing find of silicon was its use in sewing tread, as a lubricant. A small amount of this thread was then used to sew end splices to a filter belt used in a filter belt type spray booth. After two weeks of 80% rejects and 3,000 lb of wasted powder, the problem still remained. The filter belt was then replaced with a silicon-free belt. Fresh powder then solved the problem.

  • alex617
    replied
    Re: Helpful Tip : FISH EYES OR WHATEVER

    im sure i will get blasted for this but im usen a craftman powder coating so far certain thing i coat they come out good but sometimes i notice i get the part one side will be smooth an it seems like the powder wont stick i made sure the part is grounded well or maybe i should get a better gun

    Leave a comment:


  • rparus
    replied
    Re: Helpful Tip : FISH EYES OR WHATEVER

    Originally posted by jtagger19 View Post
    it would be nice if people post a problem they have had and how they solve it
    and if posible a picture of the problem . cuz I have found that people often mix up names like fish eye and back ionization ,orange peel and pin holes ,ETC. and they try to solve the problems the wrong way.
    Click image for larger version

Name:	pumpki.jpg
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    Is the blemish on this a fisheye,orange peal,crater or?

    Leave a comment:


  • rparus
    replied
    Re: Helpful Tip : FISH EYES OR WHATEVER

    Click image for larger version

Name:	pumpki.jpg
Views:	2
Size:	71.6 KB
ID:	128366
    would the blemish on this be called a fish eye,orange peel or ?

    Leave a comment:


  • SolutionsAutomobile
    replied
    Re: Helpful Tip : FISH EYES OR WHATEVER

    I use 80-100. Gives such a great bite that my commercial blaster has a hard time blasting my powder off my parts. I dont have a mil gauge but I work in electronic and can tell than PRIOR to cure they was a good 25mil of powder


    Ive been wanting to get/build a airdryer ever since I got my big compressor. I try to drain my tank, but theres always water. Water trap is not catching much.

    I dont want to install another power outlet to run a electric dryer. I dont have a lot of place left. But I want to try the copper pipe coil in icy water when I get a bit of time off.:razz

    Leave a comment:


  • Harleydad
    replied
    Re: Helpful Tip : FISH EYES OR WHATEVER

    What media and grit are you blasting with? Could also be combination of blast profile and not enough mil thickness.

    Leave a comment:


  • SolutionsAutomobile
    replied
    Re: Helpful Tip : FISH EYES OR WHATEVER

    It was sandblasted to remove all the old paint. Its a turntable top, so i wasnt greasy. Then once everything was on bare metal, I gave it another full blasting just in case. I always overblast my parts to make sure.

    The powder went on perfectly, thank to a new gun, it looked like it was going to be perfect then stopped smoothering out and stay this way.

    I did find a bit of water in my compressor tank. I could understand humid air causing the powder not to stick, but it stuck perfectly. But the powder flowed out very quickly since the oven was hot before putting it in.

    This powder has a cure schedule of 400F for 10 mins. My prime suspect right now would be the fast rampup of temperature. But im still learning.

    Leave a comment:


  • Harleydad
    replied
    Re: Helpful Tip : FISH EYES OR WHATEVER

    Originally posted by SolutionsAutomobile View Post
    I preheated oven before putting it in. Would humid air cause this? I dont have a big expensive air drier to go with my compressor. Ive always thought OP is application and cure related, and not to dryness of air.

    This part I put it in preheated oven, I normally put my stuff in cold oven, but tried to same time by preheating while coating.

    And now the 100$ question. Best way to save it? I did save some op by wetsand and recoating over it. This part will need a clear, can I do just like liquid paint and wet sand and shoot only th clear over? never tried that.

    I want consistency in my work... thank or your inputs
    Humid air can cause application problems, which I think this is. You can sand that smooth and shoot another coat of white or apply a clear as long as you don't sand through.
    How was that part prepped?

    Leave a comment:


  • SolutionsAutomobile
    replied
    Re: Helpful Tip : FISH EYES OR WHATEVER

    I preheated oven before putting it in. Would humid air cause this? I dont have a big expensive air drier to go with my compressor. Ive always thought OP is application and cure related, and not to dryness of air.

    This part I put it in preheated oven, I normally put my stuff in cold oven, but tried to same time by preheating while coating.

    And now the 100$ question. Best way to save it? I did save some op by wetsand and recoating over it. This part will need a clear, can I do just like liquid paint and wet sand and shoot only th clear over? never tried that.

    I want consistency in my work... thank or your inputs

    Leave a comment:


  • SCOTTRODS
    replied
    Re: Helpful Tip : FISH EYES OR WHATEVER

    Originally posted by SolutionsAutomobile View Post
    I have this orange peel problem, the higher the smoothness its supposed to be , the worst the orange peel is.

    this is mirror white from pbtp, also did the same with mirror black few months ago.
    This white was shot with a new gun hypersmooth 02 and dedicated ground etc. There is no ground issues anymore, the gun works flawlessly.

    <Edit>

    So, do you think it is related to the way I shot it (too thick/thin) or could water in the air line cause this?

    The only OP free parts ive done are satin black wipers and various brackets. Most gloss get OP but in different amount. This one is innacceptible.

    Id like to know what the problem is. I should be able to get results like this one with my gun : Team Putters - Caswell Inc Photo Gallery

    Application or Air issues?
    The issue could be application or Cure. Looks like too light of a coat to me from that pic. But you can cause similar issues from too fast ramp up to temp. or in some cases too slow. I've had both cause worse OP with different powders too.

    Also note: Large flat areas are way more prone to the OP issues anyway, so the wiper arms will inherently come out better even if the coat is too thin or too thick, generally. The more compund or rounded the part, the smoother the flow out and the less OP.

    Leave a comment:


  • SolutionsAutomobile
    replied
    Re: Helpful Tip : FISH EYES OR WHATEVER

    I have this orange peel problem, the higher the smoothness its supposed to be , the worst the orange peel is.

    this is mirror white from pbtp, also did the same with mirror black few months ago.
    This white was shot with a new gun hypersmooth 02 and dedicated ground etc. There is no ground issues anymore, the gun works flawlessly.


    So, do you think it is related to the way I shot it (too thick/thin) or could water in the air line cause this?

    The only OP free parts ive done are satin black wipers and various brackets. Most gloss get OP but in different amount. This one is innacceptible.

    Id like to know what the problem is. I should be able to get results like this one with my gun : Team Putters - Caswell Inc Photo Gallery

    Application or Air issues?

    Leave a comment:


  • yzviper
    replied
    Re: Helpful Tip : FISH EYES OR WHATEVER

    I lined the inside walls and ceiling with a smooth white paneling from Home Depot - $13 for a 4x8 sheet. Super easy to wipe down.

    I then mounted a 4x4 through the top of my booth about a foot long. I took the wheel off of a caster wheel I had laying around and screwed that into the bottom of the 4x4 and attached my grounding wire through the ceiling to the caster. Then took a 2"x30" piece of pipe and bolted it through the caster holes. Grounded 360 swivel that can hold my 200# body weight.

    I put my box fan on the side of the booth. My old installation had the fan directly in line with shooting. The furnace filters clog up pretty fast and become useless. So I put it down low on the side out of the direct spray path. It now creates an airflow out of the booth and the majority of the powder just falls to the floor. When the day is done, I pull the furnace filter and suck out the powder with the dust collector. I then sweep up the floor with the shop-vac mounted dust collector. I have very little problems with powder in the air now.

    Leave a comment:


  • stevedwnng
    replied
    Re: Helpful Tip : FISH EYES OR WHATEVER

    Here are some pics

    This is the old refrigerator that I'm converting into a spray booth.

    This is my current booth. Too big of a wide open space. And clean up is a major pain. I want to put a tray in the bottom of the new booth that will slide in and out that will collect any powder that falls. The inside will be lined with filters and I'm wondering if the suction fan should be mounted on the back or the top. If I turn it around it will push air instead of suck kinda the way a downdraft paint booth works. The top will have a grounded swivel that will rotate 360 degrees. You guys have any tips or tricks that have worked for out well for you? They would be greatly appreciated. I'll take any info you guys may have. Thanks.

    Leave a comment:


  • stevedwnng
    replied
    Re: Helpful Tip : FISH EYES OR WHATEVER

    I've come to realize that my spray booth is actually too big for the parts I usually do. It's too big of an open space so whatever is floating around in the air gets into the spray booth due to it being wide open in the front. Its not a walk in type booth so using a shower curtain as a door isn't an option. I'm in the process of making a smaller one that's also deeper, making it harder for floating dust to fall into. I work in my basement and I have to do everything in the same space. So just from blowing off parts creates dust no matter how much I clean. I did install a plastic separator between the coating area and my sandblast cabinet. The new booth is actually a refrigerator that I gutted out. I'm going to line the inside with filters and use my fan from the original booth. I'm hoping the fan will be even more effective since it will be in a much smaller area. I'm trying to find some info on the "deflector ring". I read somewhere that some people use a grounded metal plate mounted behind the part to catch any excess static helping eliminate back ionization. Does anyone know anything about this?

    Leave a comment:


  • darrellwaldner
    replied
    Re: Helpful Tip : FISH EYES OR WHATEVER

    Originally posted by o1racing03 View Post
    If theres any static in the air any dust or trash floating in the air can be attracted to your substrate. when your part is hanging and you spray you could be causing air flow to blow the dust bunnies onto your parts. It could be coming from the ceiling ,your clothing or just floating in the air.
    thank you... see we have shop and dust collection is everywhere, and with a large shop its really hard to avoid, i was wondering if that was the actual problem with contaminated parts.

    Leave a comment:

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