Is it this easy, or am I missing something?

[golferdude]

Okay, simple questiong here. I already own an air compressor. I would like to purchase the small powder coat gun kit. Is this all I need to do a couple of small jobs?

Do I need a special oven or can I use the oven in my house? Do I need a booth for such small jobs or is the booth necessary any time using this process?

Is sandblasting the old paint from certain surfaces recommended before powder coating, or is simple sanding, prepping all that is needed?

Any help would be appreciated as this is a new hobby I'm very interested in.

Thanks,

Tom Aliff

https://www.mbhackers.com

[DALE]

it is this simple

Do not under any circumstances use the oven in your home for powder coating. Find an old one used and place it in your garage. Sandblasting the old paint off prior to powder coating works very well and gives the powder a good surface to adhere to.If you have a compressor already and find an oven then yes the kit is all you need. Plus ordering the color powder you wish to use. Yes it is simple just requires a little trial and error to develope techniques that get you the results you are after.

[360air]

They have a basic powder coating oven around $400.00.

The cooking area dimensions are 18"x18"x18" and it connects to a regular 110V outlet. I ordered one the other day to do small parts, so I'll let you know how it goes once I get it.





Joe

[chromo]

Nothing personal, but why would anyone pay $400 for an oven? Am I missing something?

"
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They have a basic powder coating oven around $400.00.

The cooking area dimensions are 18"x18"x18" and it connects to a regular 110V outlet. I ordered one the other day to do small parts, so I'll let you know how it goes once I get it. "
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Isn't that rather small? Might be great if you need to be portable, but other than that a waist of money!


Buy an old electric stove with working oven, garage sale, auction, etc...
$35! Maybe more or less, but close. Should be even cheaper like haul away for free if the top burners don't work! 220 is not hard to hook up if you know how to wire anything, and if not get an electrician for the $350 your saving!!

If you have a decent sized air compresser it is probably 220v anyway, so you just need to connect an extra outlet for the stove.

In anycase that's all you need, a cheap electric stove, air compresser, spray kit, and colors.

Then of course what ever your working the metal with like taking off paint pulling dents, polishing out castings etc...

The main thing is electric, as I have been told the gas produced from the baked coating is flamable, so you cannot use a gas oven!!

Chromo

[360air]

I have been using the electric oven route and I didn't have the correct voltage to get it over 350. Once it got to 350 it was an 1 1/2 hours later. Allot of the newer homes and office/warehouses don't run the 220V that you need to run an electric oven. This unit is small and compact and it runs off of 110V. This oven is about the same inner dimensions as the electric stove I'm using now and it takes 10 minutes to heat up to 360 degrees F. It saves time when doing a large batch. Plus when compared to the smallest industrial model it's dirt cheap.

Also good luck trying to find a good used electric oven for $35... The cheapest I found was $125 and there is no guarantee it's going to work if not burn down your house in the process.

electrician for the $350? I like to have this guys number... It was going to run us almost $800 for an electrican to run 220V into the house and that was the cheapest out of the 7 companies that we talked too.

golferdude:
Since your doing small projects look at the biggest part you are powder coating and get an oven for that size. Later as you grow you can get a bigger oven.

[chromo]

Everything you said 360 is off the wall!

I mean this nicely, and to provide information, not to be insaulting.

First if you have power company supplied electric you already have 220v into the house. Any electrician that says otherwise is trying to rip you off!

Unless you need something extra dificult like ripping out walls or running wires under a swimming pool, then any company that charges $800 to install a normal 220v outlet is ripping you off, period!

You have two wires that are 110v and a common, and ground into your fuse/breaker box! Use one 110v wire and one common and the ground and you have 110v. Use both 110v and one common and you have 220v! That is all there is to that!

I would explain 3 phase to you, but your aready confused enough about 220!

Of course you need them wired to the correct conections though

If you did not have the correct voltage then you must have been trying to run a 220v stove on 110v or a junky little extension cord! Try to fill your gas tank with desiel and see how well that works! Or if you have a desiel then fill with gas instead! About the same thing, it ain't going to work, and you could actually do a little damage trying!

If it took 1 1/2 hours to reach 350, then go to someones house with a real working 220v stove and bake a pizza! Oven heats to 450 rapidly and the pizza is done in 45 minutes!

Newer homes not having 220v is just plain bull unless your looking at solar power, and even most of those have it!

The $400 110v oven will not save time compared to a working 220v kitchen stove. 220v is more cost effective even as it uses less power and has better performance. Why do you think they make 220v hot water tanks, stoves, dryers, aircompressors, and window air conditioners?
They do make smaller 110v units in the above items for people who don't want to mess with connecting 220, or portable units as 110v because you can find 110v in any room anywhere that has electric. It is not better, just more easily available.

Who's looking for an industrial unit? I think the average home user is looking for what works well at a low cost. Not something to bake an airplane

If the cheapest used stoves you can find is $125, then you were looking at Sears and BEST BUY at the scratch and dent items, not used stuff!
Used is stuff that is working well but being disposed of because they just bought a new improved model and don't need two!
I have lived all over the country, from east to west, and never had trouble finding a good used stove, frig, washer, or dryer for less than $100 anywhere! Most the time I get them around $25 -$50 unless I am looking for nearly new and fancy, which you don't need for powder coating anyway. You generally get the same type garuantee with a used appliaince as you do with a used car! But much less to go wrong

The 220v dryer I use now I bought used over 6 years ago and only cost me $15. It just broke the belt a couple days ago, so I will probably buy another used one, cheaper than buying the belt! I have 3 washers, all worked great when bought and still do, none cost more than $50.

I have 2 frigs that worked fine, bought cheap! I don't use them, bought them to store welding rods and such to keep em dry. But they worked great when bought and still might if I plug em in?

It ain't going to burn down your house unless you do it yourself! It either works or it don't! Most a bad one will do is pop a fuse or breaker, and rarley will they do that. Most often they just sit there and do nothing if bad! Often you can get one for free that one or two top burners don't work. You don't need those for baking anyway!

Did you buy a hardrive for your computer for the size program you were installing, or did you buy larger so you could do more stuff later?
You never buy the smallest you can get by with, sure you may only want to do water pumps today, but what you gonna do when you want matching valve covers and oil pan in a few months? Buy another larger $400 oven??

You always get a little more than you need so you can meet future needs also! Do you only buy 2 gals of gas each day because that's all you need to get to work and home again? Or do you get a little extra in case you need to go elsewhere also??

Get a 220v stove used, cheap, and it will be big enough for many parts. Also on the small parts you might even be able to do several at the same time!

Learn a little basic wiring, and if you know what you are doing to be safe, you can even pull the parts from the stove and build what ever size oven you want!

What is any electric oven? An insualted metal box, heater element, themostat, and a control to set the tempature.
That's all any electric heater is. Dryer has a drum and motor to bounce the clothes, but the heat is the same. Toaster oven, hot water tank, deep fryer, all the same thing, just different parts!

I build most of my own equipment myself like that for odd uses.
If you know what you are doing it is perfectly safe, and if you don't know then DON'T do it!!!!!!

I have an electric dryer I use to dry sawdust for a specail use, built it from junk parts to meet my needs, about $25! I could have bought a smaller kiln to do smaller loads of the same stuff for around $700, but why??

Chromo

[360air]

You have two wires that are 110v and a common, and ground into your fuse/breaker box! Use one 110v wire and one common and the ground and you have 110v. Use both 110v and one common and you have 220v! That is all there is to that!

I would explain 3 phase to you, but your aready confused enough about 220!

Hey buddy what I said might be off the wall to you. I might not know that much about the voltage. You might be "The Expert Electrican" and it's easy for you. But some of us are not! that's why we looked for some one to run the wires. This is not no cheap town to live in when you need stuff done. (Las Vegas, NV)

But if your going to bash someone beucase they made a comment about buying a new oven then opposed to a used one! Then it sounds like you spend to much time knowing it all!

Maybe some of us don't want to go looking all over gods green earth trying to find some $35 oven! I gave the guy an option and you came here and bashed me for it! What kind of board is this, I would not recomend this forum to any one if this is the type of response you get for posting.

[chromo]

Sorry if it seemed I was bashing you, was just trying to make the points about what I was saying clear. Sometimes I don't sound as polite and friendly in these typings as I mean it. Hard to tell a persons attitude when reading text, the spoken word is much easier.

My apologies!
The part about the 220v and 3 phase was meant to be joking, not insaulting, so were a couple other things, again my apologies.

Yes I know Vegas is expensive on lots of things! Been there, done that!
Lauflin,NV (however it's spelt) is somewhat cheaper and only about 90 miles away

Ya, if your to close to VEGAS I suppose I could see your power problems!
With all those casino's and the strip eating power like that I wouldn't be too suprised if a toaster had problems at times
But that is not a normal or average case in general.

I like the desert and the colorado river is pretty nice too, and close!
I don't mind a 100 mile drive. Been thinking about getting a desert place myself, but not too close to a big city.

I was reffering to the WHOLE USA in general, whereas you were replying about just Las Vegas I geuss.

As far as seaming to be a know it all, perhaps I can come acrossed that way at times unintintionally. If I could learn to spell and type better it would help
For about the last 20 years or so, while everyone I know is sitting in front of a TV rotting thier brain 5-6 hours at night I have been actively engaged in various projects. To each thier own, everyone likes thier own thing!

I read books and surf the net getting information on other hobbies and projects I would enjoy also.
From building my own windmills, making my own charcoal, blacksmithing, producing methane gas to run a small engine, I know alot more than many people. But I do not claim to know it all, ever.
My last batch of home brewed desiel fuel came out milkey and I don't know why It did burn ok though, but not right.

Nothing wrong with watching TV, that's what most people do!
Personally I watch a movie on tape or DVD once in awhile and that is good enough for me. I don't even have a TV hooked up now, watch the movies on the 3 computers I've built myself and family. I installed capture cards in them all for that purpose. Again, just what ever a person or family prefers.

So while my friends are relaxing with TV, I am getting hands on experience at something or learning to do something new.
They never have time for anything because their favorite show is comming on. Yet they call me to ask why something doesn't work, or if I will fix it for them. So I guess in my circle of friends I am kind of the know it all, they know it, so I am the one they always call for free service or advice

I certainly do not know it all though! I was totally baffled and confused recently in a conversation about Thermal Necluleur Fusion! But I do know how to sepereate Water back into Hydrogen and oxegen for small scale fuel, or to float a ballon

Chromo
Knowledgable, but not a know it all

[360air]

That's cool..

Then you know that you can't just take any oven and use to cure powder coat. Yes it might work, but it's not feasible to do so. There is allot of risk when handling and curing powder coat. The dangerous mixture of Air, Dust, and a spark of Ignition (ADI) can cause a dust explosion... You can recommend buying a $35 oven to convert to curing powder coat. I wont! Why? I don't want to be blamed for giving the wrong advise that would cost someone there life or even big penalties and fines ($25,000.00 or more even jail time). It might not happen to you but what if your neighbor calls them because there is a strange odor coming from your residents. Don't take my word for it check out your local State Occupational Safety and Health Plans office to learn more about the powder coating laws.

http://www.osha.gov/fso/osp/index.html

[DALE]

Just curious?

360air-- I'm looking at the oven you refer to right now and I am curious what you see that I don't? I see a metal box with insulation,3 500 watt electric elements,a thermostat controller and a fan oh and a stainless steel lining. What I don't see is an exhaust fans to remove the fumes, I see no explosion proof hinges and no door latch at all.I do see a vent in the top to allow for expansion of the interior air though,--- fume vent?

How is this different from a home oven in safety features?

[L98-Z]

I used a standard househould electric oven. A lady across town said if i came and picked it up, it was free. You can find free or cheap ovens, just got to hunt around a little bit.

[chromo]

Glad to see someone else step in about the electric oven.

Osha is fine for business or comercail, but for the home hobbyists they really have no say! I think that O stand for Occupational, not hobby!

If you use High powered tools at work and are so dumb as to not wear saftey glasses they can fine your emplorer big time. Especaily if you get hurt. I know they fined a curtain company once because the employees would not wear their safety glasses at the sewing machines! Osha came in a few times and found employess without glasses, warned them then gave a fine finally. You think they can really march into your home and give you or your wife a fine for not wearing saftey glasses while using the singer in the den? Same machine!

If you are in your home doing the same thing as at work, without saftey glasses and they show up, you can kick them out for trespassing!! Even if you put out your eye with a broken drill bit! It's your right to be stupid at home and OSHA has no say in that! Although dumping toxic waste is a different thing!

There is a major difference between a home hobby and comercail business. I beleave in general we're discusing primarily home hobby or private shop.

A professional paint shop is required to have all types of vents and filters to pervent air polution in many parts of the country. But yet you can still go to Wallmart or anywhere else and buy canned spray paint, spray it in the open air in your yard! Go paint the metal lawn furniture! Do some touch up on the car!
The same paint, but not the same laws!

It may vary by state or comunity. For instance here I can have as many non-registerd cars in my yard as I want (currently over 10) and I have 5 registerd and insured to drive besides those. Just 45 miles away is a little town your not aloughed to have more than two cars parked outside your home, even if you drive them! ANY more than 2 and they have to be garaged or behind a privacy fence or something.

There are even some comunities you cannot own a clunker and park it in front of your own house in your driveway! Even if it is your only car and you drive it every day! Although it's ok if it's a brand new car! That's what gated comunties and home owner assosiations are for, to tell you what you can or cannot do with your own property! Also why I won't ever live in one! It really depends on where you live.

SO if you do have wierd laws where you live then it's your problem to know them and obey them. But once again we're talking USA or even entire world here on the net, not just LA, Reno, or Vegas.

Back to the oven though,

Any electric device not properly connected can make sparks! Properly connected electric heating elements DO NOT spark! If you do get any sparks you did somthing wrong, like slopped something onto it! Same for smoke, once used a heating element no-longer smokes, unless you spill something onto it. Often a new one will smoke because of the oils on it from manutactoring, but once that burns off it never will smoke again on it's own.

As for dust, you should not have dust in your oven in the first place! If you have a lot of dust in there I think you did something wrong?
You spray powder onto the part elsewhere, then put the part in the oven. The coating should be stuck to the part kinda like a magnet sticks to a frig.
If you slam the door hard the magnet pops off, if you drop the part the powder will probably pop off
But your not really supposed to be doing that

I'm not an expert on the gas produced, but I am pretty sure it is less flamable or explosive than propane or menthane. Both of which I play with some. Although I would not suggest trying my theory, I would geuss that there is not enough of it produced to blow up your house anyway. Maybe blow open the oven door at most and the part might ignite and burn like plastic for a while, But I would be geussing that's about it. Of course I am talking about the average size home electric stove oven with part in it. Not 900 square foot comercail oven full of parts!

Someday I should test that theory just to see
Easy enough for me to connect a spark plug inside an oven and make it spark, and I have plenty of open space that would be safe to do it in.
Right now I don't have the time or an extra oven to trash, but when I get both I think I will test it. My theory is the fumes will be simailir to melted plastics, will burn but not a dramatic explosion.
I melt plastics alot and do some molding, stinky toxic fumes, flamable but never had an explosion. I use a homemade sealed melter which contains the fumes. Once again, simply a heater element, thermostat, type unit.

Has anyone experienced a fire or explosion with powder coat fumes? If so, how was it? Little poof. or big boom??

Chromo

[mcaswell]

The explosion threat isn't from gas, it's from all the small particles of dust in the air, rubbing together and creating large amounts of friction. This is the same phenomenon your hear about in grain elevator explosions, where the dust creates an explosive atmosphere.

http://www.usoe.k12.ut.us/curr/science/sciber00/8th/matter/sciber/grain.htm

[chromo]

Yea, I'm familar with that somewhat.

Sort of like the explosions in the old time coal mines, maybe even in modern ones too at times.

Lots of dust, spark, boom! Many substances like that. Explosions vary by product a great deal.

To a mild extent, coffeee creamer! Used to use it as a flash powder. Tear open a restaruant type packet, toss a bit in the air over a flame, and presto, flash! Gets too sticky though.

I think common baking flour does the same thing. If you have a fire burning and dump the bag into it creating alot of dust, large flash or small explosion. Got the hair burned off my arm once that way. Had a buggy bag of flour, didn't think about the dust but wanted to kill the wevals in the bag! Dumped it into a burn barrel and POOF!

However, you should not have much dust in your oven right! No fans blowing it off the part, just convection heat. Hot air gradually rising, no sudden drafts or heavy winds

By the time you carry the part across the shop and place it in the oven, any really loose dust should be gone. The powder still on the part sortof magnetically bonded to it till baked.

Or does it have a tendency to somewhat disolve into very fine particals while baking and mix with the air, sort of like disolving salt into water?

The real area of most concern for an explosion would be more of the spray booth than an electric oven wouldn't it?

WHile we are discussing this, since I don't know anyone personally that blew themselfs up yet

Always saftey first, but as a curiousity type question. How much spark is required to ignite the dust normally? I mean I get enough static in the air here that I look like a sparkplug sometimes when I touch my metal wood burner! I really mean I shoot a spark like a sparkplug, and I have seen it jump at least an 8th to 4th inch! Sort like touching my electric fence!
Is that enough to go boom, or does it take something more like an arc welder spark or open flame?


Chromo

[chromo]

Interesting link you posted. Went to check it out after posting last message, thought it might have powdercoat info

"Use cornstarch, flour, imitation coffee creamer, hot chocolate mixture, or bisquick. "

Hadn't thought about cornstarch or hot chocolate
Bisquick is mostly flour I think anyway.

Nice experiment.

Chromo