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  • PID set-up problem or sensor problem

    Afternoon, hope your day is going good. Mind would be better if the pro's here can help me out. Let me say that this is a great forum for finding out hows and whys for the DIYer. In finding this place, I too, have now built myself a power-coating oven. Its 4 X 4 X 4.5. My problem........

    I have a "Inkbird" PID controller that is giving me an error code. Keeps flashing the code "orAL". In reading the supplied reading material, its says that its a (1)bad sensor.....but its new. (2) its wired wrong.........I have wired it two different ways to try and match the instructions and (3) Its set up wrong in the parameters......have check this several times.

    Lets start with the sensor. Its a "Minco" sensor. 1000 ohm with a temperature scale of -58f. to 932f. It is a PLATINUM sensor. Its a "2" lead wire sensor.

    PID controller......Inkbird ITC-106-RH.
    • Support Multiple Thermocouples and Resistance Sensors (K, S, Wre, T, E, J, B, N, CU50, PT100)
    • Wide Controlling Range: -50~1300℃ (K sensor)
    • High Accuracy of Displaying and Controlling 0.1℃, Accuracy of Measurement ±0.2%FS
    • PID and ON/OFF Control Mode, High Standard Self-adjusting Function
    • Multiple Outputs and Alarm Modes
    • Build-in Adjustable Digital Filter Reduce Interference
    • The Self-adjusting Function and Intelligent Control of the Instrument Ensure the Long-term Stability
    • High Luminance, 0.39” height LED display, Anti-glare panel
    • Built-in Switch Power Supply, Wide Voltage Range and Low-power Consumption​
    • Support reading with Centigrade or Fahrenheit unit
    I have went through the parameters setting and set the unit up for a "PE" sensor. ( thats for platinum sensors 300f - 1100f. ) Default is for type "k".

    Wiring.....
    I have the "+" red lead landed on terminal #3. The "-" lead is / has been landed 2 different ways. 1) wire nut attached to wires that land on terminals #4 & 5. AND 2) I have landed the lead on terminal #4 and used a jumper to terminal #5. Both did not correct my error code. I have attached a pic to show how the instructions say to wire. ( NOTE: I had to extend the leads cause they were to short to reach the terminals. )

    Click image for larger version  Name:	PID wiring.PNG Views:	1 Size:	3.6 KB ID:	143291

    I will try and find a ohm > temp scale to see if the sensor is correct. I have not tried to see if it is open as of this post. Although, went I first started the oven up, the PID went through it's startup sequence and the contactors kicked in. But when I started setting up the controller....all stopped and has not pulled back in yet. There is other settings for alarms that i set up in the parameters, but I do not think they have a connection to this problem....I hope.

    I have e-mailed "Inkbird" but have not got a response back yet. THEY do not have a phone # to call, must e-mail them. ( Must not want any folks like me calling )
    If there's any other info need, let me know and I will try and post up that infro.

    Thanks,
    Phil

    P.S. I need to get this oven goin cause I have a 67 Mustang that Im trying to rebuild and it need some power-coating done.
    Last edited by Humpbackshooter; 02-16-2018, 03:50 PM.

  • #2
    No help. I was sure someone would step up. Heck, Inkbird won't even e-mail me back.

    Comment


    • #3
      I think a lot of the slowdown is that few are familiar with the Inkbird product... and even fewer have any real knowledge of the Platinum sensor you have employed... I could be wrong. Did you ever check the continuity of the sensor as you described you would above?? Personally I'd buy a K type sensor and stick with something like that which others are familiar... probably at this point just one to check my system for working/not working due to sensor issues, since they're cheap enough to just buy and test with... This request has been the first time in my 10 years of powder coating and oven wiring, that I have seen anyone go to the Platinum sensor. Some powders will cure below 300 degrees so the K type makes the most sense for typical powder coating.
      EMAIL scottrodspc@gmail.com

      Comment


      • #4
        Thanks, Scottrods for getting back. No.. I have not check the sensor...that on my "to do list" today. As far as the platinum sensor goes.... I had several at work that was "just laying around" and so thats why i went with one of those. We use them on the stack for monitoring the exhaust on our hot water boilers. My biggest problem I think is the inkbird. I think the sensor is going to be all right. Its the set-up that I'm having a problem with.
        When I go in to settings:
        1. it ask what type of sensor ......k, j, pe, etc etc factory set for "K". I have this set to "PE" for platinum sensor w/ a value of -300 ~ 1100.
        2. is asking for the calibration displaying (C / F) (setting range -199 - 999.) This I don't understand. Factory set @ 0.0
        3. then it asks about Digital filtering ( seting range 0 - 20) factory set @ 0. Another one I'm not sure about.
        Thats the first block.

        Then it goes:
        1 Control: pick from PID, AE...self tuning mode R- reset factory settings and ON/OF for on & off mode factory setting is "PID"
        2 Pick if it is heating or cooling.....got that Heating Heating is the factory setting here.
        3 Position mode..... "dn" manual inhibit "Auto" and "MRnu" for manual. Factory setting is "Dn". I woud think that "Auto" is correct.
        Next block is for Alarms:
        1. alarm mode 0 = power on alaarm prevent 1 = power on w/ alarm I under stand this one. factory setting is 0
        2. High Limit alarm ( setting -1999 - 9999 ) High limit alarm. I get this
        3. Lower limit alarm ( setting -1999 - 9999 ) Not to much concerned about this one. factory setting is "-1999"
        4. Positive Debiation alarm 0 - 9999 Not sure about this one. factory setting is "9999"
        5. Negative debiation alarm 0 -9999 Not sure about this one. factory setting is "9999"
        6. Hystersis 0 - 200. Not sure about this one. factory setting is "0.3"

        Then comes the pid block set-up. I get a little lost here too.
        1. control period 1 - 120. factory set @ 4
        2. proportional band 0 - 99999. factory set @ 50
        3. Intergral time 1 - 1999. factory set @ 100
        4. Derivative time (units: S for seconds i think) setting range of 0 - 9999

        and the final block is
        1. C or F. I got this........F this is America. We talk English!!!!!! w/ SAE measurements. It's hell to get old. Or just OLD SCHOOL.

        Please note that I am running "contactors" not SSR's

        Thanks,
        Phil


        Note: you got some nice looking car there at your shop.
        I checked out your facebook. Haven't seen any "58 ford panel deliverys" around. Thats the one I'm would sell the my right left arm for. But for right now I got this ole horse out in the garage that need a little touch up. Only bad thing about it.....its a I6. 200Hp and got 4 lugs all the way around. Thats what I'm working on now. Changing out the axles to 5 lugs and redoing the front with disc. I want to power coat the rear end. Already done the backing plates and bearing caps, etc,etc. Did them in my small oven.
        Last edited by Humpbackshooter; 02-20-2018, 01:17 PM.

        Comment


        • #5
          You must have looked up the guy over in Ft. Worth that has a Rod Shop... I have no 58 fords... just a couple of old VW's...

          The info you have listed should help Ed work out a setting program for you if he comes on... I have not done anything with the ink bird unit and figured that might be something he could help with as he has taken a lot of time over the years to learn even more about PID units he doesn't use. Hang in there and hopefully he will visit soon and help with settings (By the way... Auto mode is my choice)
          EMAIL scottrodspc@gmail.com

          Comment


          • #6
            Scottrod.....thanks. I'll wait on ED and see what he says. In the mean time... I think I'll go ahead and order a "K" thermocouple off of Amazon and see if that will help things out.

            Phil.

            I thought that facebook page showed some pics in Ohio. Saw some old coups. Some sharp looking car..

            Comment


            • #7
              Is there a difference in the "K" type thermocouples? Other than 2 or 3 wire. I read where some are grounded. I quess that makes up the difference for a 2 wire. The 3rd wire on a 3-wire is for grounding?.

              Thanks,
              Phil

              Comment


              • #8
                Shouldn't need anything other than a 2 wire K type TC. Pretty standard on all the ovens I've worked on. I'm a spoiled Guy... I have been running Watlow stuff for a long time... after my initial beating with an Auber unit... After I got my fill of Auber, I went all out AC only SSR's and Watlow PID for my Homemade Control box... I kept it simple and stayed away from alarms and extravagances, and use external timers (on my phone since it's always on me)... Direct and keeping solid temps within a degree or so... but all these other brands and names DO the same things... but my Watlow stuff is very purpose built and easily attainable and even American made and repairable.
                EMAIL scottrodspc@gmail.com

                Comment


                • #9
                  This my control panel and probe

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Inkbird finely responded. They was on a weeks vacation. Said that a Platinum sensor will not work with this PID. W.T.H. Says plainly that it will in the directions. Even tells how to wire 2 & 3 wire sensors.
                    Got a new "K" TC ordered last night. We'll see how this goes.

                    Phil

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Well, at least you're headed in the right direction then. Good to know that Inkbird unit won't accept the platinum sensor though... I'll probably remember that to my grave... LOL for no apparent reason. Keep us informed.
                      EMAIL scottrodspc@gmail.com

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        O.k. got the new "K" thermocouple. Got it installed. The Oven starts up but....... the reading are all off. I have went through the setting agian. The sensor type is set "K". But thats where it ends for me. Looking at the front of the PID...the "PV" is the reading of the probe.....correct? AND the "SV" setting is the temp that the PID is to control to (SETPOINT).....Correct?. The PV reading is way to high and the SV reading I can't change. I can change the calibration displaying (C / F) (setting range -199 - 999.) and this will change the PV reading. But when I get out of the setting mode.....the SV seting is still the same. This is starting to make me mad. These PID controllers are a P.I.A. What ever happen to a good old T-stat.
                        PHIL

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Well... T-stats are OK if that's what you want, but they don't have the predictive/adaptive capabilities that your oven will require, to deal with ever different loads of mass and different material types and the heat characteristics they induce while running the PID.

                          The Set point is adjustable by means of press and hold arrow up and down usually. You may have some other process that is required, such as pressing both buttons together for a short time then adjusting or some other such thing...
                          EMAIL scottrodspc@gmail.com

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Thanks Scottrods. I have e-mailed Inkbird again in hopes they can give me some input. Like you said, there is a certain way to get into the settings prop. Got to hold the "SET" button for 3 sec. before it will let you in. I do this. Then I got to "<" over to the first tab of the setting menu. Tab down to Calibration display ( which I think is the SETPOINT) and make my adjustments. THEN I have to push "SET" again to lock in the numbers. Then it's on to the next item in the settings. But when I get out of settings, the SV is still the same. Hopefully, Inkbird will help me out. If not, its back to Amazon for a new PID. OR a "T-stat". I need to get something going because the machine shop called and said that my axles are ready. So that means I gotta get going on the rear end housing.
                            Thanks, I'll try and keep ya posted up.
                            Phil

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I have recieved a e-mail from Inkbird. They advised me to e-mail them back with more info. So i did. Now waiting for a response.

                              Scottrods...what is the model number of the PID that your are using? I may go ahead and buy one and have it on hand.

                              Thanks,
                              Phil

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